oil psi problem!!, what the ****!!! Options

[treydawgs4g63T]

Ok I have been dicking with this for a couple days now and cannot get it to stop. As alot of you know I just got my motor rebuilt, if not well now you do. My problem is when I start it , oil blows out the oil pan gasket like crazy. I have replaced the oil pan gasket thinking maybe the cheap paper one that topline gave me was junk but still have the same problem. I dont have my oil pressure gauge hooked up yet but know that it has to be a extremely high oil pressure problem. How or what can I do to fix this?

any help appreciated
thanks
travis

also if anyone would like to purchase the car its up for grabs. $4700 firm. I am getting married in three months and could use a little extra cash. Its a 92 eagle talon tsi awd 6/4 combo

[awd4kicks]

High oil pressure won't cause oil to blow out of the oil pan gasket. That is just a bath of oil in the bottom of the engine. The only way I know that oil will blow out of the oil pan gasket like that is due to too much crank case pressure. That normally only happens on high mileage motors with loose rings. Things I would ask:

Is the oil only coming from the back of the oil pan after driving?
If so it may not be pressure build-up but just a bad seal between the pan & engine.

Are the rings seated yet? Did the engine get a propper break-in?
If not I wouldn't recommend boosting on unseated rings.

Is your dip stick blowing out or are you getting a lot of oil from the valve cover vent that would indicate high crank case pressure?

Hopfully some of these questions will lead you down the correct path.

Good luck

[treydawgs4g63T]

Thanks but I havent even got to drive it out of the garage yet. It happens when I start it and it runs for about 5 seconds.

The rings cant be seated yet and Im not running any boost

thanks for your help but need more!!!

[99Spyder]

Have you done a compression check on the new motor? I think that kicks is on to something with the loose rings. I am going to guess that you may find a low cylinder. If you have the capability to do a leak down test you may find that you can reproduce the leak without starting the car.

Combustion >>> Past the rings >>> into the crankcase >>> Out through the pan seal

[black92_tsi_awd]

Use grey silicone on the oil pan with NO gasket at all. Run a bead around the pan, making sure to go completely around all the bolt holes. Let it set up a while and then bolt it up.

Then do what Kicks said ^^^

[treydawgs4g63T]

I used silicone and a gasket and let it set for a couple hours before i started it again.

[treydawgs4g63T]

what are some ways i can solve high crank case pressure or what it may be? I really wanna drive this thing but cant if im blowing out a quart of oil every thirty seconds.

[black92_tsi_awd]

The main cause of high crank pressure is blowby past the rings. Do a compression test and see if that's the cause.

I would ditch the gasket all together....

[treydawgs4g63T]

I will do the compression test tonite and let you guys know what the results are. If blowby happens to be the case what the heck am i to do since its a basically brand new motor?

[black92_tsi_awd]

You're not running synthetic oil during the engine break in period are you?

Seal that oil pan up first. That's probably your main issue.

If the rings arn't sealing, I would take it back to whoever built your motor.

[AWD DSM 1]

That would be me.

I you haven't gotten it out of the garage, the rings aren't seated yet. I guess there's always a possiblity of getting a faulty set of rings...

Two questions that kicks asked that I think would tell us a lot...

Is your dip stick blowing out or are you getting a lot of oil from the valve cover vent that would indicate high crank case pressure?

Also, what kind of sealant are you using? Make sure you give it pleanty of time to dry, and are applying it to a clean surface. It won't stick to oil, no matter what you do.

I think before we all jump to the conclusion that the motor's bad we should get all the info.

[treydawgs4g63T]

I will get everything together and do a leak down test tomorrow. My dad ( being a master technician for 22yrs. ) Has been thinking about it also. One thing I noticed is that my oil pan gasket is not blowing out with the oil. So with this thought we are going to check to see if the block may have a crack in the leaking area. Anyways ill will have more info tomorrow.

[BudmannG]

Did you find your leak trey?

[AWD DSM 1]

Noticed he posted a want add becasue the block has a crack in it. Might try welding it up if it's just leaking oil, rather than tearing it all back apart and starting over.

[treydawgs4g63T]

Can you weld the block? I thought it was iron or something you cant weld?

[AWD DSM 1]

not a welding expert, but I think just about any metal can be welded with the right equipment. Cast iron is pretty tough, but I've seen it done before.

[asiankid91]

i no some one who can tig cast very well

[Taxiwardance]

If your welding on cast iron you can try to create a controlled environment in which you could use a well placed thermite charge to weld the crack. Or if your felling lucky JB Weld that sucker

[treydawgs4g63T]

I thought about jb welding it but would rather weld it if it needs it. I have come to the conclusion that the piston ring gaps have lined up wrong so I have to take the motor back apart. Fun Fun!!!

[black92_tsi_awd]

What led you to the conclusion on the ring gaps?

[treydawgs4g63T]

did a leak down test and have tons of blowby.

[AWD DSM 1]

please realize that the rings aren't seated yet. You probably will have lots of blow-by until they are seated.

I was pretty careful to make sure the rings were installed correctly, but i suppose anythings possible.

[awd4kicks]

Yeah, if you have a crack in your block the normal pressures inide the engine will blow the oil out. I wouldn't wory about anything else until you get that fixed. Rings that have not been seated yet won't hold much pressure, that's why they need seated.

[treydawgs4g63T]

first of all , im not pointing fingers at anyone so dont get the wrong impression. I pulled the motor again and i am 98% sure there isnt a crack unless I cant see it.
second of all, how am I to seat the rings when it blows out all of my oil?

[awd4kicks]

Ok, I hadn't heard there was no crack. Either way the oil is coming from somewhere. Without seeing it my most basic and important advice is to make sure you run a fresh engine with no boost or the least you can set things to until the rings are seated. That set-up will not cause oil to puke out of a normally sealed engine.

And I appreciate you not pointing fingers or causing a stink.

[treydawgs4g63T]

I havent ran any boost, I have the waste gate unhooked. I was thinking that the oil pump could be to powerfull, although I was doubting it because it is an OEM pump that I ordered from www.extremepsi.com I dont really know yet but I am going to work on it in a minute so Ill have more results tomorrow.

[Taxiwardance]

Last engine I rebuilt had a pretty good amount of blow by in it after putting everything back together. Had a .020 overbore and the ring gap clearances were right on the money. So I couldn’t figure out what the deal was until I ran it. I broke it in with the “run it hard at a low psi” approach and changed the oil after 30 miles. Checked after about 100 miles and it was perfect. Although it was never enough to blow the dipstick out or anything it made a very big difference. Not sure how severe your case is but good luck getting her running on the move. Just as long as the cylinder walls had a proper honing with a good cross hatch angle you should be good after a normal break in.

Also the oil did have a gas smell to it after the 30 mile change but the following change had no scent of combustion chamber goodness.

[Taxiwardance]

One other thing, are the balance shafts removed? And if so when the bearings were installed in the block were they rotated to cover the oil holes? This can raise the oil pressure a decent amount.

[AWD DSM 1]

One other thing, are the balance shafts removed? And if so when the bearings were installed in the block were they rotated to cover the oil holes? This can raise the oil pressure a decent amount.

yep and yep. I was hoping to leave the front shaft in, but when they boil the block, it turns any bearings left in it into a molten glob.

Kalina did the machine work, .020 overbore....

[treydawgs4g63T]

One other thing, are the balance shafts removed? And if so when the bearings were installed in the block were they rotated to cover the oil holes? This can raise the oil pressure a decent amount.

yep and yep. I was hoping to leave the front shaft in, but when they boil the block, it turns any bearings left in it into a molten glob.

Kalina did the machine work, .020 overbore....

cant remember if you said you did or not, but did you install the balance shaft eliminator bearing? If so you made sure it didnt cover the holes, correct?

I did the leak down test today again and there was no sign of blow by at all. Each cylinder was 0 psi blow by. Awesome.

I have went threw multiple oil pan gaskets and still it leaks. It is spraying out the side right by the transmission. We tried starting it with the dipstick out and the oil fill cap off the see if this would release some of the pressure but it failed to work. I talked to a honda tech , who is a friend of mine and he is going to bring home some stuff called honda bond, and he said if i cake it on there it will form its own gasket and seal every little whole there is. I have tried using RTV/gasket maker/silicone and nothing is working. I figure if I let the honda bond stuff sit and seal for like a day!

! am half tempted to use a big bead of jb weld!!!!!!!

[black92_tsi_awd]

I have went threw multiple oil pan gaskets and still it leaks. It is spraying out the side right by the transmission.

YOU DON"T NEED A GASKET! Use silicone only or the Honda bond stuff. Silicone should be left to cure over night, insufficient cure time can cause a leak

If it's leaking by the tranmission, check the rear main seal or the gasket between the block and the rear main seal holder (I can't remember the name...)

[AWD DSM 1]

cant remember if you said you did or not, but did you install the balance shaft eliminator bearing? If so you made sure it didnt cover the holes, correct?

If you didn't use the bearing to cover the hole, you would have NO oil pressure. The bearing was installed to cover the oil hole, since the front balance shaft is removed. This wasn't the way I was wanting to do it, but how I had to do it after I found out the old bearings had to be removed anyway.

[Taxiwardance]

If you didn't use the bearing to cover the hole, you would have NO oil pressure. The bearing was installed to cover the oil hole, since the front balance shaft is removed. This wasn't the way I was wanting to do it, but how I had to do it after I found out the old bearings had to be removed anyway.

True, you must cover the oil hole with the bearing if the balance shaft itself is not creating resistance in the pumping system. But even so it shouldn’t create an unmanageable amount of pressure. I have ran 3 engines with this procedure done, and even with a brand new oil pump it wont cause enough pressure to cause what your describing.

If it's leaking by the tranmission, check the rear main seal or the gasket between the block and the rear main seal holder (I can't remember the name...)

Sounds like this may be your problem by everything your describing. I highly doubt you have blown out numerous oil pan gaskets with engine crankcase pressure. The rear main consists of the rear main seal housing, the rear main seal, the rear main seal gasket, & the rear main seal retainer. May want to take a closer look around that area before you go JB welding the oil pan on there

[treydawgs4g63T]

i wasnt actually going to jb weld it on there!! Also is it possible to change the rear main seal with the engine still in the car? I know I would have to pull the tranny, and that is getting to be a 20 minute process.

Rob, was there a new rear main seal installed when the motor was done? I have a seal left over from the rebuild that looks just like a cam seal but about twice the size and I thought it looked something like a main seal or something of that sort.

Thanks for the help so far guys and keep it comin'!

[black92_tsi_awd]

Yes you can replace the rear main seal. You'll have to remove the clutch, flywheel etc. Order yourself a new gasket for the rear main seal housing.

[AWD DSM 1]

Rob, was there a new rear main seal installed when the motor was done? I have a seal left over from the rebuild that looks just like a cam seal but about twice the size and I thought it looked something like a main seal or something of that sort.

Yep. There were a lot of extra parts in that kit, it's designed as a universal for all the 2.0's... a lot of non-turbo parts in there.

I'd check that aluminum rear main retainer... it may have gotten cracked while you were moving it around. I've got a couple spares, you can have one if that's the case.

[Taxiwardance]

The rear main retainers are notorious for cracking. Forceful contact or a few extra lbs or torque on the little bolts and those suckers will crack and cause a mess. Remove the flywheel cover and stick your hand or something behind the flywheel and between the block. You should be able to tell without even pulling the tranny. Makes quite a mess. Also you may want to run a dye test on the oil and see if you can spot the exact cause before it covers to wide of an area.

[treydawgs4g63T]

I will double check to be sure its the pan and not the main seal and use the honda bond tonite. Then Ill let you guys know the results.

Thanks for the help!

[treydawgs4g63T]

Ok can someone tell me the torque specs for the main housing. When i took the flywheel off and checked to see if they were tight I could almost turn them by hand, they were kind of loose.

Torque specs in foot lbs. please! Hopefully this will solve the problem. Also ordered my clutch today so she should be a.o.k. by this weekend.