throttle body seals Options

[scrapin_frame]

well i did a boost leak test yesterday.. my throttle body leaks pretty bad. i really dont wanna replace the seals myself after reading the vfaq.. is anybody here willing to offer their services? i will order the seals myself, so all ya gotta do is replace them.
if its too much though, i may just buy another tb. i found one for a decent price that has already had the seals replaced.

[Hult250R]

Its really not hard at all. Ive done like 3 sets of em. Order the seals and tear into it!

[ncgalant]

Order what??? I used O-rings from menards and some dialectric grease. In all it takes a half hour.

[Hult250R]

Order what???  I used O-rings from menards and some dialectric grease.  In all it takes a half hour.

you can use o-rings but its better to order actual seals for it

Heres a link with the part number for the seals in it:

http://www.ca.dsm.org/faq/tb-shaftseals.html

[scrapin_frame]

i did another log run. i bypassed the mbc. i'm seeing about 12psi but did spike to 15psi.
here is what i got @ 7156rpm
INJD 57.8%
KNCK 0
O2-R .80V
TPS 54.6%
MAP 25.6psi
TIMA 19 degrees
COOL 192 degrees
AIRT 94 degrees
BARO 13.3psi
INJP 9.7ms
ISC 96
MAFS 1599Hz
FUEL 26.9psi
PUMP .3V

on another pull i got this @ 6687rpm
INJD 100%
KNCK 8
O2-R .07V
TPS 69.1%
MAP 23.9psi
TIMA 18 degrees
COOL 196 degrees
AIRT 83 degrees
BARO 13.9 psi
INJP 18.1ms
ISC 97
MAFS 1599Hz
FUEL 100.7psi
PUMP .3V

do you think boost leaks are the cause of maxing out my injectors and my maf?

[mitsu90]

I may have missed it but what is your mod list?

[scrapin_frame]

removed aircan, maf free mods, 144 intake, removed emissions, ported 2g exhaust mani, balance shafts removed, magnecor wires, 90 oil cooler, rewired fuel pump, mbc set at 14psi(removed at the moment),currently running open dp

i do have a ported and polished 2g tb elbow and supra TT fuel pump awaiting install as well

[mitsu90]

what turbo and injectors?

[scrapin_frame]

stock 14b and 450's

[mitsu90]

now that we got that info someone that know what there doing will be aong to help you out.

[ncgalant]

In that first run did you let off just before that point? Looking at your injector PW and DC that would have to be the case. In any case, can you post an entire log from 3000-6000 with just RPM, knock, timing, O2, injector DC? I'm sure many on here can give you much more insight with some more information.

[scrapin_frame]

well i would post a pic but seeing that i cant do it unless it is hosted, i guess i will just have to copy and paste. since it is so wide i have to break it up, but there is rpm on both so ya dont lose track

ERPM O2-R ISC TPS MAFS
2406.25 0.04 87.00 47.45 371.11
2593.75 0.80 91.00 46.67 446.59
2812.50 0.06 92.00 59.61 534.65
3125.00 0.64 96.00 63.53 698.19
3531.25 0.84 96.00 60.00 798.83
3812.50 0.80 96.00 56.86 861.73
4156.25 0.86 96.00 63.53 968.66
4562.50 0.76 94.00 57.65 1100.75
4843.75 0.86 96.00 61.18 1195.10
5093.75 0.84 95.00 55.69 1289.45
5375.00 0.94 96.00 55.69 1377.51
5625.00 0.76 92.00 63.53 1484.44
5843.75 0.80 96.00 63.53 1534.76
6093.75 0.84 94.00 57.65 1603.95
6375.00 0.84 92.00 60.00 1603.95
6562.50 0.94 96.00 57.65 1603.95
6750.00 0.78 95.00 55.69 1603.95
6937.50 0.57 96.00 63.92 1603.95
7156.25 0.80 96.00 54.90 1603.95

ERPM KNCK INJP --- TIMA
2406.25 0.00 6.66 17.00 27.00
2593.75 0.00 7.68 21.00 22.00
2812.50 0.00 8.96 26.00 26.00
3125.00 0.00 12.54 41.00 25.00
3531.25 0.00 11.78 44.00 21.00
3812.50 0.00 12.29 50.00 25.00
4156.25 0.00 13.06 57.00 25.00
4562.50 0.00 12.29 59.00 24.00
4843.75 0.00 16.64 86.00 22.00
5093.75 0.00 16.38 89.00 24.00
5375.00 0.00 16.90 97.00 24.00
5625.00 0.00 15.62 93.00 25.00
5843.75 2.00 15.87 99.00 25.00
6093.75 2.00 17.66 115.00 28.00
6375.00 1.00 16.38 111.00 27.00
6562.50 1.00 16.90 118.00 21.00
6750.00 1.00 15.87 114.00 20.00
6937.50 0.00 15.10 111.00 20.00
7156.25 0.00 9.73 74.00 19.00

that there after injp, i have no idea what that is and i couldnt find the duty cycle anywhere once i loaded the log to my computer

[natedogg]

Boost leaks can be a cause of maxxing out your injectors. Your turbo is probably spinning enough to create much more than 15 psi therefore sucking in a lot of air as read by the MAF even though due to the leak you are only making 15 psi. This translates into large injector duty cycles.

[scrapin_frame]

i was actually really surprised to hit 15psi while driving cuz when i did the leak test i had 80psi in the air tank and couldnt get my boost gauge above 12psi

alright... so duct tape is a good leak fixer, right?

[The Iron Goat]

alright... so duct tape is a good leak fixer, right?

I once made an entire engine out of alumnimum foil, duct tape, JB Weld, and RTV. Ran a little rough, but it got the job done.

Definitely track down the leaks and seal 'em up. Let us know your progress.

[ncgalant]

alright... so duct tape is a good leak fixer, right?

I once made an entire engine out of alumnimum foil, duct tape, JB Weld, and RTV. Ran a little rough, but it got the job done.

Definitely track down the leaks and seal 'em up. Let us know your progress.

Mine ran just fine

I'm going to second with Nate. Notice how your timing falls off past 6300 with no knock to make that happen. A boost leak will do the same kinds of strange things.

[NOMIEZVR4]

Boost leaks can be a cause of maxxing out your injectors. Your turbo is probably spinning enough to create much more than 15 psi therefore sucking in a lot of air as read by the MAF even though due to the leak you are only making 15 psi. This translates into large injector duty cycles.

Can a worn out fuel pump do the same as well?

[NOMIEZVR4]

correction,

a worn out fuel pump and black colored spark plugs?

[scrapin_frame]

if the fuel pump is a cause, which i doubt it, i have my supra pump waiting to be installed. i didnt want to install it til i get my aeromotive fpr, but if i have to replace the stock one, i will and then just overrun my injectors when i idle.

[scrapin_frame]

Order what??? I used O-rings from menards and some dialectric grease. In all it takes a half hour.

did you do a leak test after you replaced with o-rings? at what psi did ya test?
i am about to head to menards to get the shit to do it, but i dont wanna waste my time if i do a leak test again and have it leak still. i just wanna know how much pressure it can take... if they are fine up to 20psi, thats enough for me...... for now

[ncgalant]

Your timing tells the it all. Between 5500 and 7000 you are jumping up by 2 load levels. This can ONLY be caused by an increase in air going through the MAF. Either your boost seriously spikes at that point, or that air is never making it to the engine. I'm leaning toward the second.

[scrapin_frame]

on the vfaq it said he tested it at 15psi... that will prly work fine for me, but it would be nice to have the peace of mind that it can sustain a little more pressure

[scrapin_frame]

this sucks! what did they make these screws out of? butter??? i went through 5 different phillips sizes to find the perfect size and the screw still started rounding.. i was able to get one out with some light pounding on the screw driver with a mallet, but the other hasnt moved a bit and the head is too rounded now to get it out, so now i gotta go get a screw extractor kit, and try to track down new screws. i had great hopes that this would go fast and easy

[black92_tsi_awd]

this would go fast and easy

Does not go with DSM...

I've used super glue before to get better bite on a tough screw...just a thought.

[scrapin_frame]

this would go fast and easy

Does not go with DSM...

I've used super glue before to get better bite on a tough screw...just a thought.

i know...

what the hell was i thinking!?!?!?

everytime i think of a repair that might(and usually always will) need to be done, i think of yoda saying "the shroud of the dark side has fallen"

[scrapin_frame]

well i picked up a screw extraction kit, some loctite, but autozone didnt have the screws i need. i could use the one that i was able to get out with the screwdriver, but i'd rather not. i got the stripped screw out, and got the o-rings put in. i got it reassembled, i threaded the one screw into the throttle plate just to get it lined up and make sure it will snap closed ok. now tomorrow i have gotta go track down these screws.

if anyone has any suggestions on where to get them, throw it out there

[scrapin_frame]

bastard ass screws! i called everywhere... even the dealership cant get the screws.

the vfaq says they are 4mm x .75
the closest i could find are 4mm x .7

i am hoping they will work. they threaded in fine.. i squirted some red loctite in also.

while i was on the search, i went to rural king... when i went back out to the car to leave, i couldnt find my keys... so i walked around rural king for an hour staring at the floor, retracing my steps, trying to find my keys.. turns out i am a moron.. i threw them in the passenger seat earlier and they went down beside the seat and the door sill...

anyway, my throttlebody is now ready to install. i am going to paint on one side of the screws and throttle plate so i can check them in a few days to make sure they havent moved any.

also i talked to a friend and he suggested that next time i file off the peening on the screw. he said that helps them come out much easier

[black92_tsi_awd]

also i talked to a friend and he suggested that next time i file off the peening on the screw. he said that helps them come out much easier

The peening also is there to keep the screw from coming out when the engine running...I would leave it there.

[scrapin_frame]

but whats the point of leaving the peening on it if it is gonna cause the destruction of the screw by rounding off the head, and possibly damaging the threads in the shaft


anyway, the throttle body is back on, i did a leak test again to 15psi. i am still leaking air at the throttlebody, but it isnt nearly as bad, and i think it is now coming from the gasket. i logged the car again. the maf and injectors are still maxed out
i'm gonna pull the tb back off and rtv the gasket.

[Hult250R]

When I did mine I red loctited them and after they were in and tight i used a center punch to peen the end of them for a lil more insurance that they wouldnt come out.
You dont want a screw going through the motor

[99Spyder]

If you haven't, you might try putting some soapy water (dish soap) on the TB during your boost leak test. Seeing where it blows bubbles will help you pinpoint the leaks.

[scrapin_frame]

i think i am gonna test it by sections. i've already tired of finding a leak, fixing it, then finding another. so i think i will cap off at the outlet of the intercooler, test from the turbo to the intercooler. then i'll cap off before the tb elbow and test from intercooler to tb elbow... then test directly at the tb elbow. i just wanna find all my leaks at once so i can quit with this back and forth crap

btw, the car feels like it is pulling stronger now

[scrapin_frame]

well i pulled the tb back off. the screws are still lined up where i marked them and they are tight. i rtv'd the tb to intake mani gasket and the tb to tb elbow gasket. i havent yet done a boost leak test, nor have i logged it. i was going to log it tonight but the batteries in my palm were drained. i did however take it for a drive and it feels much better... i took a friend(the same friend that a couple weeks ago said that my old stock fwd talon felt faster) out for a drive in it and he thinks it feels alot better also. i am gonna try to log it tomorrow to see if it fixed my maf and injector issue... but even if it doesnt, i am happy in the improvement so far. if it did fix the problem, then i will put my mbc back on and turn the boost up a little

[scrapin_frame]

ugh.... this stupid car!!! still maxing injectors and maf. and i got bad knock during 1st gear of the pull. knock spiked to 35.

[scrapin_frame]

yesterday i was driving and could here what sounded like an exhaust leak.... now i ha heard this before and replaced the ex man gasket... it seems like i hear it when its cold, but when it warms up, it goes away.. what do ya think it could be?

[natedogg]

There are a lot of gaskets on the exhaust side of the head.

-Head to exman gasket
-Exman to turbine housing gasket
-Turbine housing to O2 housing gasket
-O2 housing to downpipe gasket

It could be anyone of those gaskets if it sounds like an exhaust leak. You might try feeling for leaking air around those gaskets while the engine is running. Just don't burn yourself!