A little DSM perspective... Options

[awd4kicks]

Have any of you gotten a chance to drive a powerful RWD car on a full slick?

Josh let me drive the SLO PNY 1 Saturday night. It's a carburated small block cammed-up for high rpm and plenty of bottle. Right now it is together but still un-tuned. It's running about 10.8 AFR when it should be about 12.5 at WOT. So it's not performing as raw and fast as it will once tuned...

But dang that thing is a handful. I wouldn't normally want an automatic car at all, but not being used to his car made driving the manul trans a LOT of work. The fat-low-pressure slicks are something else. I've ridden in a couple and drove two Mustangs with these kind of tires... I hate it! Straight line traction only! The rest of the time I was trying to keep the car somewhere NEAR my own lane while trying to man the shifter into position. Don’t get me wrong his Mustang rides descent for what’s done to it and drives down the road at normal speeds just fine. I had ridden in Steve Powers race Stang before with an automatic and that thing was a tin-log-wagon…very rough. Now he has a TA that is running VERY fast with a full stock interior on drag radials which still have a low profile and easy control.

The DSM’s dainty transmissions may be the glass-jaw for most owners, but at least they can be shifted most of the time. The SLO PNY 1 is using the tried and true Tremec truck transmission because it will hold up to the abuse, but getting it into gear requires a full force punch while grinding most of the time! I missed one to two gears on each WOT pull, and that RARELY ever happened in the Talon any more.

Josh’s car is fast and it will get the job that it was built for done in a hurry. It will even drive better once he replaces the steering shaft for a tighter wheel and tunes the fuel. But I found out for sure that I am not looking for a drag race only car.

I did however ride in an 03 Cobra running 17psi with a handful of other mods. I expected the power and it felt good. What caught my attention was this car and owners ability to dish out about six full on WOT runs, one right after another without even breathing hard or worrying about breaking something. That was interesting and a trait I wouldn’t mind having in my own car.

The point is that my preference is definitely for a ‘Sports’ car that can be cross trained for most forms of racing. This is why the DSM has been my weapon of choice for the past six years. My problem has always been accepting a lower or specific power range rather than just jack the HP up as far as my money will get me. I think I will need to further ponder my true expectations of a ‘Street’ car built for racing before I make any rash decisions. In the mean time I may go through a few toys before I settle back into one car.

It’s hard to get over all driving excitement that an AWD DSM can supply a person in almost any circumstance… They just break to damn much!

[treydawgs4g63T]

well, I dont personally have much to say and I cant really say anything about your dsm because I have never seen it run or even seen it at all, but think twice before you turn towards a v8. Then there wont be the fun of smoking something with twice the motor in your dsm. If I were you I would just tune it down a tad with the talon and go from there. 400 hp is a pretty decent number coming from a street driven 4 cylinder car. What does everyone else think?

[AWD DSM 1]

Variety is the spice of life....


Kicks, i think you and I think on a similar wavelength when it comes to what we want out of a car. Take some time and explore the options out there. DSM's are fun, but I've spent way to much time working on them and not enough driving them.

[Max Diesel]

Have any of you gotten a chance to drive a powerful RWD car on a full slick?

Josh let me drive the SLO PNY 1 Saturday night. It's a carburated small block cammed-up for high rpm and plenty of bottle. Right now it is together but still un-tuned. It's running about 10.8 AFR when it should be about 12.5 at WOT. So it's not performing as raw and fast as it will once tuned...

But dang that thing is a handful. I wouldn't normally want an automatic car at all, but not being used to his car made driving the manul trans a LOT of work. The fat-low-pressure slicks are something else. I've ridden in a couple and drove two Mustangs with these kind of tires... I hate it! Straight line traction only! The rest of the time I was trying to keep the car somewhere NEAR my own lane while trying to man the shifter into position. Don’t get me wrong his Mustang rides descent for what’s done to it and drives down the road at normal speeds just fine. I had ridden in Steve Powers race Stang before with an automatic and that thing was a tin-log-wagon…very rough. Now he has a TA that is running VERY fast with a full stock interior on drag radials which still have a low profile and easy control.

The DSM’s dainty transmissions may be the glass-jaw for most owners, but at least they can be shifted most of the time. The SLO PNY 1 is using the tried and true Tremec truck transmission because it will hold up to the abuse, but getting it into gear requires a full force punch while grinding most of the time! I missed one to two gears on each WOT pull, and that RARELY ever happened in the Talon any more.

Josh’s car is fast and it will get the job that it was built for done in a hurry. It will even drive better once he replaces the steering shaft for a tighter wheel and tunes the fuel. But I found out for sure that I am not looking for a drag race only car.

I did however ride in an 03 Cobra running 17psi with a handful of other mods. I expected the power and it felt good. What caught my attention was this car and owners ability to dish out about six full on WOT runs, one right after another without even breathing hard or worrying about breaking something. That was interesting and a trait I wouldn’t mind having in my own car.

The point is that my preference is definitely for a ‘Sports’ car that can be cross trained for most forms of racing. This is why the DSM has been my weapon of choice for the past six years. My problem has always been accepting a lower or specific power range rather than just jack the HP up as far as my money will get me. I think I will need to further ponder my true expectations of a ‘Street’ car built for racing before I make any rash decisions. In the mean time I may go through a few toys before I settle back into one car.

It’s hard to get over all driving excitement that an AWD DSM can supply a person in almost any circumstance… They just break to damn much!

I know how you feel. Having owned a DSM in the past, and only getting to drive it every so often. Here's a past project I completed June of '06. For sale now so the owner can build up a '66 convertiable. Turbo '93 Cobra It was amazing to see this on the dyno at Anderson's. It had at least 18 pulls done on the dyno and we never had to do any "fixing"!!!! Truly an amazing car, and a blast to drive. Makes me want to build my SR20 powered 240 up alittle!!

[JBone]

Makes me want to build my SR20 powered 240 up alittle!!

That's exactly why my graduation present will be a S13 or S14 Nissan.

Ask anybody that has ridden with me, I love to see how fast I can go through a corner, and I didn't like the front wheel bias that the DSMs have. Under steer sucks. I am a big fan of good ole over steer and throttle steering

Don't start flaming me, I am aware of the tricks to nuetralize the plow in the front. I'm just not a fan.

Kicks, I still say go get a GTO. At least go and drive one. Then pick me up in it.... better off, when I come into town, we'll go test drive one. You can say it's a graduation present for your grandson.

Or you can sell your soul and get a CTS-V

[awd4kicks]

I am 'Old' like 36 years old as Jbone is referring, sadly your beginning to look about my age boner!

In light of that I have had many cars and up until the Talon 95% of them were V8's. So I came into this as a V8 guy and I have never lost the love for them, I just enjoy the all around ability of a DSM. Plus it's much more technial and obviously different from building a naturally aspirated V8.

I would love to get a new Z06 or even the Cadilac CTS-V with the LS6.

I think any 1998 or new corvette would give me everything the Talon has minus AWD but with added sex appeal and saddly a lot higher cost.

Next down the line would be a 1998 or newer F-body, preferably the TA with the LS1 -or- the LS1/LS2 power GTO's...I'd have to drive one to verify the handling is there.

I wont be able to afford a large loan like those have for a couple years. So in the mean time I will probably build my old '46 Ford truck with a flat head V8 Rat rod style, maybe get my '65 Chevy redone, or pick-up a couple of roller projects that just need a V8 dropped in for fun factor and sell.

I still need to think about the Talon. I'm not bashing it because it's broke all the time. If that were way too much I would have sold it long ago. It has so many positive benefits designed into it I can't think of a good affordable replacement.

[Super16G]

MUSTANGS SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Let's see a pic. of that truck Marcus...... If you wanna get rid of her let a brotha know

[black92_tsi_awd]

Don't forget the insurance cost that goes along with that new Z06 ot caddy price tag.

Maybe the best thing would be to step back and get one of your current projects (the rat rod truck sound good) worked on for a while. It'll give you time to really think about what you want to do with the Talon.

I love Chevy V8's too, but beating Vettes and Mustangs does have a certain fun factor

[awd4kicks]

True both points there Black_92.

For reference I measured the engine bay in the Talon. A Small block chevy will fit with room to spare all around, but 80% of the engine would be in front of the centerline of the front wheels. Any handling benefits the Talon had would be lost with the V8 set-up. That would not serve my purposes well.

I think it's admirable that it is so hard to come up with a comparable car after you've owned an AWD DSM for a while.

[AWD DSM 1]

Very true about the insurance... I work with a lady that just sold a 96 vette, nothing fancy. Her husband, who is in his 60's and has 2 tickets was paying around $3k a year for insurance alone!!

I gotta say, some of the more fun cars I've had have been the more mild versions.... I still miss my first 93 GSX, I've been searching for that feeling ever since I sold it. I've also found that this little 89 rx-7 is pretty fun to drive, handles like it's on rails! I also miss my cavalier to some degree, I think that was more because I didn't have to worry about breaking that one....

[turbohcar]

I gotta say, some of the more fun cars I've had have been the more mild versions...

This is the truest statement I've heard in a long time and it didn't really hit home till I bought the Camaro. I just bought an exhaust for it and truth be told, I don't expect to do anything else but maintenance for quite some time. Sometimes more fun can be had in the truest form of the vehicle.

[natedogg]

I say pick up a used C5 and put this on it.

http://www.ststurbo.com/c5_corvette

I was watching Horsepower TV the other day when they put this system on a new C6. Tuned on pump gas at 7 psi it made nearly 550 hp and 550 ft.lb. with no lag that I could tell!

[awd4kicks]

Hook a brotha up man. I did my part I found a 2000 C5 for just under $12k with 107k miles a six speed and light rear end damage. Now I just need someone to donate 12k to me.

[natedogg]

If you pick it up, I'll donate some time to help you install a turbo system on it!

[AWD DSM 1]

Shit, I've seen some 99-00 z-28's for $5-7k with higher miles...

[haunter]

I am 'Old' like 36 years old as Jbone is referring, sadly your beginning to look about my age boner!

In light of that I have had many cars and up until the Talon 95% of them were V8's. So I came into this as a V8 guy and I have never lost the love for them, I just enjoy the all around ability of a DSM. Plus it's much more technial and obviously different from building a naturally aspirated V8.

I would love to get a new Z06 or even the Cadilac CTS-V with the LS6.

I think any 1998 or new corvette would give me everything the Talon has minus AWD but with added sex appeal and saddly a lot higher cost.

Next down the line would be a 1998 or newer F-body, preferably the TA with the LS1 -or- the LS1/LS2 power GTO's...I'd have to drive one to verify the handling is there.

I wont be able to afford a large loan like those have for a couple years. So in the mean time I will probably build my old '46 Ford truck with a flat head V8 Rat rod style, maybe get my '65 Chevy redone, or pick-up a couple of roller projects that just need a V8 dropped in for fun factor and sell.

I still need to think about the Talon. I'm not bashing it because it's broke all the time. If that were way too much I would have sold it long ago. It has so many positive benefits designed into it I can't think of a good affordable replacement.

you should come here sometime and I will try and get ya behind the wheel of my dads SS if you want to verify that they can handle.....


however, with all the suspension mods done to it....

he drove russ's z06 2 events ago and only wants it so baaaaaaaaaaaaad

[Super16G]

FC Customs TT STS turbo kit on a ZO6

[awd4kicks]

That is ludicrous! Do you know how much power it put down on the dyno Todd?

[ncgalant]

I never have understood those rear turbo kits. Something about 12' of intake pipe is just disturbing.

[awd4kicks]

Let's see a pic. of that truck Marcus...... If you wanna get rid of her let a brotha know

Here is a current pic of the '46 Todd. She has been neglected by storage for the past 15 years. I think it will make an awesome Rat Rod though.

Attached File(s)

 _092606_1946a.jpg ( 0bytes ) Number of downloads: 0

 

[turbohcar]

^^^ do it now!

BTW, I like how it looks to be lawn mower powered!

[AWD DSM 1]

I never have understood those rear turbo kits. Something about 12' of intake pipe is just disturbing.

I've heard they perform fairly decently, as crazy as it sounds.

[haunter]

I never have understood those rear turbo kits.  Something about 12' of intake pipe is just disturbing.

I've heard they perform fairly decently, as crazy as it sounds.

intake temps stay pretty low, and on such a large engine there isnt much lag, nor the rats nest that twins under the hood with a V8 can cause

[black92_tsi_awd]

Here is a current pic of the '46 Todd. She has been neglected by storage for the past 15 years. I think it will make an awesome Rat Rod though.

Chop that top!!!

[awd4kicks]

Definitely needs a chop and channel. May offset part of the frame for better leg room as well. Those things are small inside.

[black92_tsi_awd]

Sounds good, flat black primer paint job and your set!

[Super16G]

I like how the mower is Frenched in

[awd4kicks]

Hell YEZ! I evun got's a weed eat'r tuck'd n rolled in the other side.

[badbu68]

Blow through turbo setup would be pretty cool on that, just get some shorty headers and go!

[black92_tsi_awd]

I've got it! Stick a turbo'ed 4G63 length wise in there backed up by a powerglide and let her rip!!

[AWD DSM 1]

I've got it! Stick a turbo'ed 4G63 length wise in there backed up by a powerglide and let her rip!!

He said he wanted something that wouldn't break so often....

[Mitsu 77]

I too plan on getting out of the DSM game in the not to distant future. Like kicks my heart belongs to the LSX powerd cars. My plan is do somewhat replicate what Marko has done with his vette..

Pulled from Corvette Forum:
STC Twin Turbo C5 Update: Forged Motor....time to start making real power

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

692 RWHP 660 rwtq at 12.5 PSI with the stock LS1 shortblock. Rather then going for a meaningless record and possibly destroying a block or crank, we decided that we had punished the stock shortblock enough. We have logged over 100 Dyno pulls and 3500 miles of street driving with the new "Street Force" twin turbo system which met or exceded our expectations in every department throughout repeated abuse. I had made 4th gear pulls at over 15 psi on the expressway. Instead of destroying the stock shortblock, it proceded to destroy the rear tires at over 80 mph. Our STC clutch performed flawlessly and outperformed the RPS clutch we originally started out with. The RPS clutch was slipping at anything over 10 psi. Our STC clutch held up to over 15 psi!! I was honestly expecting the engine to let go or the clutch to start slipping, but fortunately settled for a set of black marks on a cold concrete expressway. I'll take it!! So I repeated the tailwagging at 80 + mph more than dozen times!! Lot's of fun!! Our STC forged shortblock features our custom spec piston which shares it's design with the the piston used in our record holding 1520 RWHP Toyota Supra. The forged 346" will finally allow us to explore the upper limits of the Street Force twin turbo system. I'm sure the results will be everything we had hoped for and more.



Supercar Tuning Center
55 Gaylord St
Elk Grove Village, Illinois
1-847-640-7305

99' C5 "Street Force" Twin Turbo
692 RWHP@ 12.5 Psi

Worlds Fastest Street Supra 8.45@162
1520 RWHP@ 59 Psi!!!

Pics of his turbo kit.
well I can't find his kit anyware, but here are pics of HP's kit which is vertualy identical.