AWD Conversion, Is it possible? Options

[wntsom4]

Can you convert a 1G FWD carr to a AWD car?

What would be needed to do so if it was possible?

[wntsom4]

Oops sorry I posted this in the wrong place.

[AWD DSM 1]

Possible, yes... been done a few times. Why don't people do it? Because it involves cutting into the frame of your car, and re-fabricating much of it. The FWD and AWD chassis are VERY different. Not worth the time and effort, let alone the money when you can pick up a really clean AWD rolling chassis for $750.

[KOU In3]

I think it's for the same basic reason why most don't reccomend doing a turbo swap into an N/T car. Chassis's that comes stock with the features you are looking for are readily available.

By the time you price out the tranny, transfer case, driveshaft, rear-end parts you'll need, add in the incredible time and fab work neccessary to make it happen, well you start to get the idea.

Then there's all the things you'll run into that you haven't considered. Exhaust, front cross-member, etc.

Although it's been done, the consensus seems to be roughly the same as a turbo-swap into an NT. Doable... yes. Worth the vast headache... probably not.

Just my $0.02

[Justincredible]

, let alone the money when you can pick up a really clean AWD rolling chassis for $750.

IMO. take that. Swap your good engine into the AWD chasis. Sell the FWD chasis. Hash your losses up against paying for a AWD conversion and youll be miles ahead.

[SCCA Stang]

on a similar but slightly different subject,
someone asked me last night if it would be fairly hard to yank the turbo off of a AWD DSM and set it up with the N/A manifold, downpipe, ect...
I asked "why"
he said, its for a racing class that doesn't allow turbo charged cars, but he wants the bennefit of AWD which is allowed, what all is intailed into that???

[ncgalant]

Use a 90-94 NA Manifold and DP. Then fab up an intake. Use your same MAS and injectors. That's about it. It would be a very simple swap.

[Justincredible]

wouldnt it need a NA ecu??? cause wouldnt the turbo ecu fire some fuel that an NA engine would just bog.

[ncgalant]

It would work quite fine. The ECU drops in just as much fuel as is needed just like if there were a turbo there. The big advantage of the turbo ECU is the knock sensor support. If it were mine I would use an SAFC and still lean out wide open until it knocked.

[KOU In3]

Shouldn't need an ECU. I can run my Laser in blow through set-up on the translator without an UICP at all. Basicly makes it into an N/A car that way if that makes sense. As long as the engine is getting the air the MAS is metering it should be fine.

You should be able to use the existing intake manifold. Just run a pipe from the throttle body elbow to the MAS. Up near the finder should give you a little colder air.

The downside will be running a normally aspirated 7.8:1 compression ratio though. Can he swap in a N/T engine into the AWD chassis? Or even better rebuild with some high compression pistons.

I do have a stock N/T ex-man/header around here somewhere if it helps as well.

Has he considered other options here as well like the Galant GSX (not GVR4) or one of the AWD non-turbo Subuaru options?

[natedogg]

Justin is right. The NA won't run correctly on the turbo ECU and turbo injectors. It will probably run, but it won't run correctly, or at least not nearly as good as it would with NA injectors and ECU. The turbo ECU is mapped differently and is calibrated for 450cc injectors. In addition to the stuff that ncgalant mentioned a turbo to NA conversion would require NA injectors, NA ECU, and NA fuel pressure regulator. There may be some other things that I'm forgetting as well.

A turbo ECU on a NA car won't work for pretty much the same reason we can't just swap in larger injectors on our turbo DSM's without some kind of MAS signal correction.

[ncgalant]

A turbo ECU on a NA car won't work for pretty much the same reason we can't just swap in larger injectors on our turbo DSM's without some kind of MAS signal correction.

I hate to disagree with you, but there are plenty of people on the 4g64 board running galants and eclipse spiders in NA form with a turbo ECU and injectors. It's really a good thing to use the turbo ECU because of the knock detection.

[Justincredible]

I hate to disagree with you, but there are plenty of people on the 4g64 board running galants and eclipse spiders in NA form with a turbo ECU and injectors. It's really a good thing to use the turbo ECU because of the knock detection.

without any form of fuel correction??

[ncgalant]

QUOTE (ncgalant @ Mar 5 2004, 05:05 PM)


I hate to disagree with you, but there are plenty of people on the 4g64 board running galants and eclipse spiders in NA form with a turbo ECU and injectors. It's really a good thing to use the turbo ECU because of the knock detection. 


without any form of fuel correction??

You don't need correction if you use the right injectors with the right ECU. The ECU is just going to see a curtain amount of air and put in the right amount of fuel. That's all there is to it.

[Justincredible]

so what your saying are the fuel curves are the same? I'm perplexed by this concept.

[ncgalant]

All I am saying is that it knows you need X amount of fuel for X amount of air. It puts that much in. The other advantage is that it won't see much load and will give loads of timing. The combo promises to rock.

[natedogg]

Yes, but the conversion factors between the two ECU's are not the same. Trust me, I do this for a living at Cat. Just because there are people out there who are having success doing it a certain way does not mean that its the best way to do it. I can see how doing it that way would work to a point, but fuel correction is still the best way to go to keep the mixtures from being too rich or too lean. The fuel maps pick injector pulse width based on airflow, RPM, and engine load. They are 3-D maps. The pulse width numbers that are programmed into these maps reflect the displacement and volumetric efficiency of the engine.

[ncgalant]

I do agree that at the low air flow numbers that will be seen in NA form that the A/F and timing might not be perfect. What I am saying is that I couldn't see spending the time and money to swap out the ECU. I also like the knock detection support if one wants to tune on the ragged edge.

[natedogg]

That's cool. I see your point as well.

[KOU In3]

someone asked me last night if it would be fairly hard to yank the turbo off of a AWD DSM and set it up with the N/A manifold, downpipe, ect...

I think a few have mentioned the turbo ECU paired with the smaller non-turbo injectors. If I read the post correctly though, it is basicly along the lines of de-turboing a turbo car.

Given that, the 450cc injectors will already be in place. Wouldn't the turbo ECU run them just fine? Just like reflashing our e-proms for larger injectors.

Given as someone brought up the SAFC, I'd almost assume the MAFT Translator could serve the same function to lean the car out.

With my recent experience completely blowing off upper intercooler pipes, I have some limited experience running a de-turboed car.

I'd expect him to be able to swap out the exhaust manifold and removed all the asssociated turbo and plumbing and then run what would be the equivalent of a blow through set-up on our cars (would end up being draw through once the car was deturboed).