just cutting the fat. Options

[Rollout]

Well put, im with marcus.. I like looking slow .. if thats even possible

[AWD DSM 1]

No offense to those that want to gut. I think gutting a car for racing is the perfect thing to do...on a race car.

A lot of you on DSMCentral and Cii probably haven't had much exposure to the old DSM threads from the Talon Digest and the old stand by Chi-town DSM yahoogroup, but the slogan most of them use to run by was 'Go Fast With Class'. This may have sounded like some corny Student council idea from high school, but it is meant as a way to separate the DSM guys with true desire to tune and be incredibly quick from the 'ricers' and wannabe import owners that would do everything cheap and cheasy to look like a flashy race car or their opinion of it. Honda owners (No offense) have been known for this gutting for years, but it makes sense with so little horsepower in the majority of the Hondas on the street. DSM's were known for pulling up in what appeared to be a semi-stock or at least full interior car and just obliterating the rows and rows of gutted imports trying to look fast.

So beyond a history lesson this may mean nothing, but it's the idea that I build my stock bodied full weight AWD DSM by. A properly tuned DSM can beat down just about any import and quite a few V8's with-out a bit of weight reduction.

EXACTLY.

[Benny Z]

i'm not offended.

i agree, it's definately more respectable to run fast with all OEM interior.

...but i'll do what i have to do for the 30th.

this is step 1.

[xian 1g]

My .02, and I'm not arguing with you marcus, I have no legs to stand on there.. Your knowledge far exceeds mine, and I respect that. But, I don't appreciate being called "cheap and cheasy", inferring that I have a lack of "class" because I gut my car that means I do not have a serious "intent to tune my car to be quick."

I think spy's gutted red car with the black hood looks nice. It has a real clean interior that I'd eat off of. In fact, I'd even say his car looks classy. Yeah, you can rip my car apart for the lack of mods that it has right now when you look in the interior and see nothing there. I'm in school right now, and until summer comes I don't have the money or the sponsorships to drop an fmic, t3/t4, 750cc's, mendrel bent exhaust, etc... into the car... DSMtalk.com/newbies forum/free mods. That's where I started. Then, buschur stage 1. That's what i'm working on right now. My intentions with this car is only for speed. It's not to give a bunch of friends a ride to and from the bar. It's not to impress the girls, it's not to impress real racers, it's for me. I bought this car to learn how to turn a wrench, to learn how to tune a car, to learn how tweak and squeaze every bit of performance I can out of it.
I respect those who wish to keep their interior and luxuries on their car. But, I will chide them and tease them when they need to change their altenator, or when they need to do anything in their engine bay. If you have a dd, or don't care, all that luxury crap is not only an excess weight but is pointless to work around, interior (ecu's- 3 in 4 weeks, shifter plate bushings, that's 4 times of yanking off the console just to have it in the way again, etc. ) or engine bay.

Now, I haven't been around the scene long enough to argue with you, but it has been my experience that most of the little honda ricers driving cars that daddy bought, that I've seen around would never gut their car... but then again these are the guys that buy a big wing and a loud muffler some spinning rims and flaming dragons to make their car 'look' fast. So maybe these aren't the ricer's to which you are refering too. I have no experience with honda ricers that actually modify their car, i didn't even know they existed. And I can see why it would aggrevate someone whom i've only been told is fast, really fast, really serious (you marcus), when you see a pos that's gutted and the guys pretending to be in a race car.

alright, there's my .25. Like I said marcus, I respect you and the fact that you are very knowledgable, and very fast. I put forth no front to what I am. I am new, never turned a wrench before a month ago, couldn't change my oil, I am a newbie who only wants to learn how every part of his car works, and what he can do squeaze every bit of performance out of it. it's been a long bad sleepless night.

[boxer]

hatch went on a diet tonight, too.

you gonna be at the autox tomorrow?

[natedogg]

I don't think Marcus meant to infer that anyone who has gutted their car is classless. I think he was simply referring to a philosophy brought about by the Chi-town DSM's that he agrees with.

To me, gutting a car is another way to make it quicker. If the owner of the car doesn't mind that its gutted then that's all that matters. Its your car, do what you want. You defintely don't have to impress others with it. Its pointless since other peoples' tastes vary so much anyway. One person may have more respect for a quick full weight car because it can go fast even while heavy, while another may have more respect for the gutted car because he sees that the owner pulled out all the stops to attain the most speed that he can.

As many know my car has definetely been trimmed of some weight but I haven't taken it nearly as far as others on this board. I still have a full sized battery. I still have a complete front interior (well minus the hvac assembly under the dash, but that was removed for engine harness access more than weight savings). I still have a rear bumper. I still have much of my sound deadening material. I still have stock front seats. I also have a 6 point roll cage which definitely adds some weight. This is the path I have taken because it is what I want for my car. I know that taking more weight out would make it quicker, but I'm comfortable where its at now because I also know that leaving it full weight would make it slower.

The rule of the thumb is for every 100 lbs one gains a tenth of a second, but I believe Hammar made a post on CII a while ago pertaining to the hp vs. weight issue that brought some real numbers to the table. I can't remember what they were off the top of my head, but the basic premise seemed to be that the less the car weighs the more gains one will see by making the car weigh even less. An example would be one is going to see more gains from taking 100 lbs out of a 200 hp, 2000 lb car than taking 100 lbs out of a 200 hp, 3000 lb car.

[Benny Z]

nope...it's my dad's 50th b-day.

plus, i'm not SM legal in this condition!

[Justincredible]

I did it only mine cause my hatch plastic was gross and my headliner sagged and was dirty as can be. If you ask me if it aint broke don't fix it.

[MidwestDSM]

I personally run my Laser with full leather interior. I don't really give a damn about the weight, I just enjoy having a quick car that can run with 95% of whats out there, and if comfortable while doing it. I enjoy the fact that I can pick up a girl, listen to a couple CDs, take her out to dinner, and then smoke a GT on the way home

[Benny Z]

I enjoy the fact that I can pick up a girl...

what? since when have you been picking up girls???

[xian 1g]

whoah, didn't mean to start a debate here. .. I totally respect marcus, and his opinion.

when i find a girl whose panties drop when she see's a gutted 1g... that's the girl for me. Untill then, i'll just have to pick up girls who like pick up trucks.

[awd4kicks]

Here are a few points. Some I tried to convey earlier and others to clear up some things...

This is an opinion just as anyones posts are.
I was not directing any ridicule towards anyones car on DSMCentral.
I do see a trend of more gutted DSM's these days. (Kris used to be it locally)
There are numerous gutted DSM's in the 14-15 second range
There are stock bodied DSMs runing faster than 14's without big turbos

My point a DSM does not 'have to be' lightened to be fast if it is massaged and tuned well (Big turbo or not). I do understand the theory of power to weight ratio, I'm just making sure that everyone realizes time spent tuning and building can make more of a difference in acceleration then conducting weight loss programs at these ET levels. Now in the 8-10 second range there may be nothing more potent than a weight loss program.

To clear some things up...
Thanks for the kind words, but I can not be considered very, very fast considering the caliber of cars present on this site not to mention the DSM comunity as a whole.

I definitely do not fault anyone for not having money to put in their cars. I lived on the stock parts for ever and have yet to be succesfull otherwise.

I do not leave my car with a full interior to impress anyone. Quite the opposite, I actually like the sleeper attitude and lack of attention gained by a stock yet clean 1G DSM. However, for three years this car was my ONLY daily driver and the vehicle I hauled my kids around in. So my priorities are a bit different than others, but it didn't slow me down any.

[JMoushon]

Troy: I dont think you need to LOWER your power to weight ratio any more. I could be wrong. I don't know.

[JMoushon]

Maybe weight to power? Or you could raise your power:weight. I'm confused. Where am I? Spy, who are you and why are you touching me like that....?

[MidwestDSM]

I enjoy the fact that I can pick up a girl...

what? since when have you been picking up girls???

whenever I cant find a big manly beefcake like you to satisfy me

[wortdog]

The term go fast with class orginated with the Buick GS guys in the early 80's in response to gutted Chevies common at the time. The GS guys and turbo Buick guys carry this on today. You will almost never see a gutted turbo Buick. Even the sub 9-second cars typically have full interiors, many still have A/C. That doesn't mean that they're against cutting weight, they just don't cut weight in an obvious manner. Steel rear brake drums are replaced with aluminum brake drums. Steel bumper braces are replaced with aluminum bumper braces. Lately people have been dropping weight by converting to an aftermarket all aluminum engine. Carbon fiber and fiberglass body parts(paint matched to the car) are very common. This is one of the reasons nobody can tell a 14 second Buick from a 10 second one. The other rule about the Buicks is that the cleaner the body is, the faster the car is, which is certainly true here in C-U. The cleanest, lowest mileage car in town is also the 10-second car, my car is somewhere in between, and then there are some stock beaters running around.

Miami has run into this with his car, some people are scared to run him because his car has so much obvious weight reduction done to it(even when he claims to not have any engine mods, hahahaha ). Marcus never seems to have that problem.

[awd4me]

how hard is it to take out the cruise contro and ac?

[JMoushon]

About as hard as changing the oil. Unless you want it permanently removed. I would be more inclined to disconnect it at the strip for the recovery of parasitic power loss than to rip it out for the weight reduction. Ripping thing out is easy, as long as you don't care how it comes off.

[katie]

he was at the chinese place.....he's the one who walked you in and introduced you to everyone....sorry to answer for you awd4kicks

[katie]

ha ha ha marcus=awd4licks=guy from slo pny= guy who walked you in= coolest mofo ever lol does that sum it up?


and as a side note, it shocked the poopers right outta me that you even showed!!! Now there's a fella who loves his chinese food to drive all the way from iowa to have some....dooooood, did you even eat? lol