DSM race weights Options

[JMoushon]

I appreciate all the input fellas. The idea of a 1.4 60' time is unbelieveable! I'm hoping to get into the 1.8 range with slicks. Keep the good info coming! You guys rock.

[ranta18]

I ran a 1.99 60ft on street tires when I ran the 12. I had 425/375 springs, rear shocks, and a front traction bar. But its a different ball game when it comes to slicks and a drag car.

Slicks + Street car = front traction bar, coilovers w/ 300-500 lb front springs and 900+ lb rear springs, and adjustable front and rear shocks. The stiff rear springs will keep the back from dropping which in turn keeps the front from raising and the tires from spinning. Adjusting the rear shocks to stiff also help keep it from dropping. When shifting, you don't want the weight transfer to be too violent so a stiffer spring on the front and some adjustability with the shocks would be good. You can get custom coilovers from Ground Control for a good price.

Slicks + Drag car = front traction bar, rear traction (aka wheelie) bar, stock shocks ( or adjustable if you want, but not absolutely needed), and cheap pooper coilovers (or a custom set if you want) w/ 300-500 lb front springs and 100-300 lb rear springs. With the soft rear springs it allows the car to sit on the rear bar right away. Thats what you want. When it drags on the rear bars it keeps the front from coming up and spinning the tires and also increases your wheelbase so you have better control of the car. Stock shocks or adjustable shocks set on low allow the rear to sit down quick also. I know Clay Sloan runs stock shocks on cheap coilovers and pulls 1.4's and Mark Brauning (NDRA All-Motor Champion) runs some sort of shock on cheap coilovers and pulls 1.3-1.4's. I've also seen several pro's on Honduh-Tech post that they run a very soft spring in the rear when running a rear bar.

Thats just some tech info from Honduh racers. Not sure if it will apply to the DSM's but I would imagine a FWD is a FWD no matter what. I could see the AWD guys sepending a lot more to get things to work good.

[awd4kicks]

Good info! I was aware of the street car settings but not spring weights and I had no idea what the spring and shock settings were on the strip cars. I always heard about the longer wheel base effect with the wheely bar, but I figured that meant to cut down on weight transfer. The point about the car being easier to handle/control with the wheely bar is interesting.

BTW - I've got some ideas for a track only AWD.

[JMoushon]

Ranta: You keep mentioning the front traction bar. Although I have seen pics of many different bars, I have never actually seen one mounted on a car. What exactly does it tie together? I'm assuming it helps to get rid of wheelhop under a lot of power, but where does it go? I know that the Mitsu and Honduh front subframes and suspension are completely different, but I could perhaps fab a similar bar if I knew it's purpose.

Mr Ranta also informed me that the rear bars cannot be pre-loaded, which is a nice bit of info I would have never though of when designing my set-up. Thanx.

[ranta18]

You are correct, the rear bars can not be pre-loaded and you must be able to spin the rear wheel(s) before going down the track (stagging). At least thats the NDRA and NHRA rules. Brauning got some heat from this last year because they would do the burnout and then set the bar. Everyone thought they were pre-loading it. It would look fine in the pits, but remember when the tires expand after the burnout, it will bring the front end up and rear bar wheel down.

The front traction bar ties the lower control arm to a solid piece. Basically you have this big chromoly bar that goes across the front of your car. Then you have 2 arms that angle towards the lower control arms and bolt to it. The arms have ajustable eyes on each end so you can load the bars. When launching they keep the lower control arms from moving and help reduce wheel hop and wheel spin. The angle and location of the bars is important because they must not bind up when turning or when the suspension goes up and down. Full-Race makes the best that other car that we shall not name ones. Check out their website here for info and pictures http://www.full-race.com/civic-traction-bars.html

[JMoushon]

Seems like a solid piece, and the concept/design make sense. The advertisement says there is no welding required, but what tabs/brackets to the bars connect to on the LCA?

[akamiami]

I know a fella who has a traction bar on his street FWD and he didn't seem to think it was doing much for him. I don't want to name names, but he has a car that we can't talk about.

[JMoushon]

I know a fella who has a traction bar on his street FWD and he didn't seem to think it was doing much for him. I don't want to name names, but he has a car that we can't talk about.

So the point of saying that was....

[akamiami]

it was a roundabout way of saying that your fwd is retarded and you're a stupid head for trying to make the doody go faster than watching hair grow. ......caca head.

I just watched 'the villiage' and it seems to me we treat the other car that we don't talk about the same way they treat the things that they didn't speak of.

[ranta18]

I'm not sure where you could bolt it to on your car. I'd have to look. Can't remember what the DSM LCA looks like exactly. On the Hondas, there is a bolt that you take out, put this [ shaped bracket on the bolt, then put the bolt back in. Then the traction bar arm bolts to the [ shaped bracket. You could weld the [ shaped bracket on I would imagine. Here is a great picture:

[JMoushon]

KriSS: I love you, you make me randy. You better have anallube in tip top shape if you want to keep talking. You and your AWD superiority. I laugh in your face.

Ranta: I understand now. Thanx much. It looks like it takes all the potential play out of the LCA, kinda like replacing the bushings with spherical bearings.

[ranta18]

Rear traction bar pictures:
Clay - http://www.imagineengineering.com/clay.jpg

Brauning - http://www.dprracing.com/Media/DPR%20Drive...g/brauning8.jpg

Two different styles of mounting the top bars. Its up to you, but as long as they tie into the cage it should be fine. Most do it as Clay does with them higher. There have been people who damaged the unibody by attaching the bars to the unibody instead of the cage.

[JMoushon]

What are Clay's bars attached to? It looks like they are tied into the body (sheetmetal).

[ranta18]

No, there is a horzontal bar in the back that is attached to the cage with 4 angled bars. You can kind of see it here:

http://www.imagineengineering.com/clay2.jpg

http://www.imagineengineering.com/clay3.jpg

[awd4kicks]

where do you get a (wheely bar) wheel that will hold up to that kind of load?

[JMoushon]

You make one, silly!

[ranta18]

Not sure. I'm sure someone makes them,but I know Clay and Brauning made their own. I think thats what most people do. Chromoly all the way. I have a source for Chromoly and a place that can TIG it, so I'm making my cage and traction bars.

[JMoushon]

Not sure. I'm sure someone makes them,but I know Clay and Brauning made their own. I think thats what most people do. Chromoly all the way. I have a source for Chormoly and a place that can TIG it, so I'm making my cage and traction bars.

See? Not all Honduh guys are helpless!