Victory Performance Rocks!, I'll try to keep this short but it's not Options

[awd4kicks]

This past Summer I finally got my 2.4 stroker together and started looking for the remaining parts to assemble my project with the FP3052 ball bearing turbo set-up I had decided on. One of the major upgrades I needed to put in place was a good front mount. For the past couple of years I've been aware of Victory Performance's sweet looking FMICs with the rounded end tanks. As luck would have it we had a newer member 'Turbohcar', post up an ad for high performance parts from a buddy of his. One of these was the Victory Performance 1G Street FMIC I had been longing for.

After much converstaion through Turbohcar and the seller I finally sent off a money order for $800 to the seller for the unused but not-new Victory Performance FMIC. This was a $300 savings plus the seller included shipping. So as you can see this started out as an awesome deal in my book.

When I received the FMIC kit everything was there and in great shape except for the passenger side intercooler pipes, all the couplings and clamps. As a plus the throttle body elbow that came with the set-up was manufactured for a blow through configuration which is what I really wanted. But with some parts wissing, again went much time and converstaion with the seller.

This is when I first talked to Scott at Victory Performance. I called him to get an estimate for the remaining pipes, couplings and clamps required. Although Scott had never sold me anything before, he was willing to send me two raw pipes and all the couplings and clamps for a very cheap price and was also willing to include the shipping! WHAT? Scott couldn't supply pipes preped for the blow through set-up, but this was surprising customer service to me. As generous as that was I held out as long as I could for the original seller to come through. With no resolution and about 2 weeks left before our rescheduled Sport Compact Drag Challenge I finally broke down and purchased the remaining Blow through pipes, coupling and clamps required from Dejon. These guys were also VERY helpful in splitting their normal pipe kit and Fullthrottle supplied the T-bolt clamps at incredible prices.

I have to say this FMIC went in like a glove! The rounded end tanks fit in between the bumper mounts perfectly and the top was low enough that I only had to remove a 45 degree section of the bumper from top rear to the bottom front. I was even able to leave the stock license place mounting holes in place for that stock stealth look. The mounts for the FMIC fit to pre tapped holes already present in the front of the Talons frame. While the only cutting that was really required was to open up the holes through the front of the car for the piping and relocating the radiator overflow bottle. This FMIC was engineered very well to fit the DSM!

Once everything was together and the initial engine break-in proceedure was executed, I had to do some fine tuning with the piping to make it stay together at 20psi. That was expected and no big deal. The day before SCDC I had sprung another boost leak that I could not locate, so 99spyder graciously towed the Talon to Cordova with tools and parts to repair most leaks. Upon arrival Spy, Turbohcar and I found the huge leak at the passenger side FMIC end tank! Holy Crap I've never seen anything like that before and I was surprised that it happend with only 20psi.

Back at home I called Scott at Victory Performance with the news to make sure this FMIC was correct for my engine configuration and intended use. I told him I planned to have a local fabricator repair it and he told me if I have any more problems to send the FMIC back to him and he would repair it or replace it at NO CHARGE! So I employed Eric Vicary of North Pekin and 'Midwest Fabricators'(?) to straighten the end tank plating and tig weld the broken seams. Eric had the repair finished within a couple days for a very respectable $30.

The next night I had the FMIC installed and began retesting to start tuning. Within about 5-8 20 psi passes through a few gears the FMIC again ruptured. This time it was at both end tanks. Wow!

It took me a couple weeks to get everything together, but I got a hold of Scott at Victory Performance and he planned to stick by his word. I sent off the FMIC in early December with an estimate from Scott that it would take a couple weeks. Knowing how most DSM shops are slow and that I have still never purchaesd anything from Victory Performance....I honestly didn't expect to see the FMIC back for a few months. I'm not kidding....

Well time passed and I left a couple phone messages at like 2 and a half weeks and a week after that with no response, but no real surprise either. Then right after the forth week Scott e-mailed me and said he appoligized for the delay over the holidays but planned to have the FMIC out soon. The following week he got my work address and sent the FMIC out that day still at absolutely no charge to me. I recieved it the next day and could tell that he replace the endtanks with heavier material and the welds at the core are 2-3 times wider! Very well built.

As any of you would have, I installed the new and improved FMIC that night. Oh it was better! It held the glorious boost up to 20 psi with ease. I even upped the MBC for a quick 3rd gear throttle stab up to 28 PSI and it held no problem! What a positive end to a crazy FMIC story.

Unfortunately, with the weak links strengthened all the way to the throttle body, I'm pretty sure I blew out my Cometic HP head gasket this same night at 20-25 psi even though it was squeazed by brand new ARP head studs and a fresh cylinder head.

So one story ends...another begins. I just hope this one ends as well as the Victory Performance FMIC story has. Thanks Scott!

[akamiami]

I've been reading about non-cast end tanks commonly blowing out on high HP DSM's. Also about guys having very difficult times getting their head surface RA's low enough to not have problems sealing MLS HG's. If you can make sense of the acronyms I'm throwing out, that is.

Nobody said building a monster DSM was an easy chore, but it's nice to hear about reputable shops that take as much headache out of it as possible.

[awd4kicks]

This post is not to complain, but to commend such great DSM customer support by Victory Performance!

I'm not worried about the problems so much. The FMIC was just one small step in a long program to turn a stock 15 second 1992 Talon into a streetable 500WHP monster. Making it streetable makes the job exponentially harder in my opinion. Making any vehicle high HP is never easy, unless your paying someone else to do it. I can tell you that from experience.

I have to say I have never heard of FMIC end tanks blowing out or folks having problems getting their Head gaskets to seal Kris. I would be VERY interested to hear any more information that you may have like this on our types of projects.

Persitance folks. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Persistance is what separates the serious from the faint at heart. I'm running low on steam and funds but I am not a quiter.

I can't tell you how relieved I am that I am able to work bugs like this out during the winter months! I'm already formulating a plan for funds to get the cylinder head O-ringed. I will be ready for spring if I have anything to say about it. This thing is shaping up to be a monster.

Thanks for your help today spy!

[99Spyder]

That is good news about a reputable vendor and a stable FMIC. The news that followed was not so good though... What was the head torqued to originally? I have always heard to go 80 ft lbs on the ARPs. I have a Cometic HP HG sittin here and hope to not repeat your experience.

[turbohcar]

I'm already formulating a plan for funds to get the cylinder head O-ringed.

Don't you mean "get the block O-ringed"? I've never seen a cylinder head O-ringed, but it is quite common to O-ring a block for high horsepower applications.

BTW Marcus, you are a crazy bastard! You've had a lot more trouble with your car than I've ever had with mine (and that's saying a lot after 3 years in the making). But I suppose it's as you say, persistence is what seperates the men from the boys.

[awd4kicks]

Victory Performance went way out of their way to be the exception rather than the rule in this case. I didn't and never will expect this kind of support on a normal basis. VERY commendable, but I don't know how they can afford to be so generous.

You can O-ring either the head or the Block. Natedogg was running an O-ringed block, but Darryl runs O-ringed heads on his race engines.

I had my ARP head studs torqued to 100ft/lbs on my current Cometic set-up. This is by recommendation from Darryl. He actually tightens his a bit further I believe. To try the lucky way out I cranked all the Head studs to 115ft/lbs yeaterday to no avail. The membrain on the Cometic head gasket is obviously ripped away from the surface.

[natedogg]

Yeah you can O-ring either and get the same result. Namely, the steel ring being able to seat in something which allows for much greater sealing. I've always had my ARP's torqued to 100 ft-lbs as well. Torquing them down this hard requires careful sequencing through the studs so that you don't inadvertantly cause any warpage to the head. The torque required also depends on what lubricant you are using on the threads. If you are using ARP's supplied lubricant, it requires less torque. If you are using engine oil, it requires more torque.

[BudmannG]

What kind of funds does it take to O-ring a head or block?

[awd4kicks]

I'm still in the process of getting exact numbers, but I've been told around $300 for the O-ringing of the cylinder head plus the expenses to check the head over and mill it if required.

[The Iron Goat]

You know, Marcus, there are those of us that agreed on something at Dan's party. You've invoked the wrath of the mighty and fearsome God of 14b's!!!! After all those years of extreme abuse and ragged-edge running that you did, he's come to kick some ass. You better hope that he's finished with you, or things could get really bad!

[hammar]

Since it's pushed a gasket out, you may want to check that the block is still flat/square too. Having it cleanup up isn't a lot of $ as long as it doesn't make your deck height to short. (Feeding of Kris's comment, at that kind of pressure every thing needs to be flat/square/perfect in that joint....)

2 steps forward, 1 back... keep pushing Marcus!

Hammar

[awd4kicks]

Thanks guys!

I may be trying the newer SCE Titan ISC copper head gasket with features to help it seal better than the Cometic. That is if I don't find any negative info on it. I've started a new thread for this discussion here.

[turbohcar]

That looks to be a good choice. I would have to say I agree.

[awd4kicks]

alright time for a little update...

After my Cometic head gasket blew at 20psi I knew I wanted to upgrade some way to make this area more bullet proof. As stated earlier in this thread my options were to try the relatively new SCE Titan ISC copper head gasket or go all out and get the block or head O-ringed. I would much rather go all out and be safe rather than sorry. I didn't want to pull the engine again So my only O-ring option would be to O-ring the head. The $350 price tag Buscher wants to O-ring the head is a little discoraging though.

I pulled the cylinder head a few weeks ago to inspect the problem area and get it ready. I found that cylinder #3 had blown through the rubbery membrane on the Cometic head gasket to a front water passage. With the 900mile Cometic in the trash now, I started inspecting the cylinder head surface. With a professional straight edge we found the area between cylinder #3 and the water jeacket was low (or high depending on how you look at it). So I knew the cylinder head may need to be machined as well.

With a little help from Slo Pny-Josh we found a machine shop that already O-rings DSM engine heads on their CNC machine and for a much cheaper price tag! Without anymore hesitation, I sent the cylinder head off to them a couple of weeks ago. They found the dip in the cylinder head surface to be about .004 and milled it flat again. The cylinders have all been O-ringed and I was expecting to get the head back last week. However, Murphy had other plans as usual. The Machine shop found the valves would not seal totally on their seats. So another $165 is going to them to recut all the valve seats and the valve faces! (I swear I spend more money on DSM cylinder heads than anything else!)

They also found that the stock springs and valves had been floated by the previous aftermarket cams that were installed. He said the valvetrain hardware is fatigued, but more than sufficient for my stock cam set-up for now. The machinest also noted that the aluminum in these older heads is getting softer which causes more problems for us as they age. To my relief he said the work thay are doing will not be blow proof, but will work for the purpose I'm building this stroker for - no problem.

Now I'm trying to decide if I want to spend the money for the FP dual spring kit and retainers while the valves are out of the head. This is not money I really have to spend now, but would put me half way closer to having the FP3 or 3x cams I'm looking to get in the future.

Marcus

[mitsu90]

good to hear there was no major damage when the HG blew.

[turbohcar]

Marcus, you and I have the same mentality I swear. If it's broke, you might as well upgrade it and everything else that goes with it. Problem is, those upgrades always seem to break the bank.

[99Spyder]

Was your head machined at the same time as the 2.4 build up? I sure hope not since my head came from the same place as your block...

[natedogg]

Marcus is right here and no Precision is not responsible for the head work.

This cylinder head was purchased over a year ago from Zack as is with .5mm oversized valves and stage 2 ported runners. The head has always been labled as fresh because it was assumed to be when purchased.

The head needed freshening...no big deal it will be better in the end that the head was actually sent off to a machine shop for the upgrades and resulting freshening.

[99Spyder]

For my sake I am glad to hear that Precision did not do the head work and that you have a reason for the Cometic blow out. I am done hijacking your thread now. Thanks!

[JBone]

I'm a pimp slap yo ASS bitch

From Marcus