Project Black Golfball-plans for 2008 Options

[black92_tsi_awd]

Report on the guy(s) that rolled, from the Cordova website

Unfortunately the raced was marred by two incidents as Gage Curry has his Jr Dragster rollover after a rear-end failure. Thankfully, he was not hurt in the incident. Also in round two of the Pro ET class, Rich Dawson lost control of this Camaro and smacked the wall. As a precaution he was taken by helicopter to a local hospital with bruising and a hand injury. He was scheduled to be released on Monday, May 5. "If there is any one thing that could be pointed out from these incidents is that the new safety wall did what it was intended to do" said Scott Gardner.

[black92_tsi_awd]

Since the car doesn't knock under boost I headed to the track for Bracket Race #2

Interesting day...

Shifter was acting funny with it hard to get into 5th and reverse last couple of days. I get to the track any do my normal underhood check and find a bolt a washer sitting on the tranny....hmmm, look around and the shifter bracket is barely held on by the other bolt. That explains that.

First run
12.814@106.29 at 17psi with a stiff head wind 10-20mph

Second run the car creeps through the beams when on the stutter so that wastes a run by the mph is 106.16.

I drive around the pits trying to get the car to do it again on the stutter, everything fine.
Third run, it starts creeping on the stutter, I catch it mash the throttle and run a 12.911 @ 105.65. Ugly launch and now I'm getting pissed.

Eliminations
I decide to dial high, to leave me room to screw up the launch and if it runs good I'll dump. So I dial a 12.99
I hook the brake with the side of my foot and mash the thottle. Works good except the unfamiliar foot brake situation cause me to relight -.077 so I run it out the other end to a 12.879 @105.88. That is pretty consitant with my first run. Wind was picking up so it killed my mph even more.

So now I need to figure out why it's rolling now. I noticed my clutch is engaging closer to the floor. It might not be disengaging enough and is grabbing slightly at the 5000 stutter rpm. So hopefully I just need to adjust the clutch pedal a little to get some more fork movement.

As far as the knock problem, got my normal knock driving down the interstate. No knock at the track except for the last run <13 on stutter. On the way home I got <6 counts all the way home until I turn down my street. I don't know, maybe the watered down 92/110 octane mix in the tank finally got down to a level to cause it to go back to it's old ways. Now I don't know whether it real knock or not.

[awd4kicks]

Keep up the good work Chris. So far I Have found no miracle cures for knock. As others have mentioned, I have given up worrying about non-WOT knock.

[black92_tsi_awd]

Today I tried to eliminate my part throttle knock:

1. Welded up a intake pipe with a reciculating tube to get rid of my open BOV--no change

2. Double checked timing. With the engine warm, timing plug grounded and 750 rpm I couldn't get the logger to match what the timing light was telling me. The logger was stuck at 8 degrees and I had the timing mark about -5 degree BTDC. I talked to NCgalant and we think the CAS might be bad. I took it for a ride, at the part throttle knock was better but who knows what the timing is actually doing.

We both thought that the logger should lock out at 5 degrees with the timing plug grounded to allow you to set the crank timing correct to match 5 BTDC??? But on my logger it won't go below 8 degrees.

What does the timing supposed to read at idle with the timing plug UNgrounded? 10 degrees?

[black92_tsi_awd]

I started thinking (always a bad thing) and I had read on RRE Site on how to orient the CAS. According to this site it should look like this:

Mine was installed 180 according to this site. So I swapped it around. Idle was at 2000, let it warm up, rest the BISS to get 750. Reset the timing and this time it matched the logger pretty well at 4-7 degrees and took it for a ride. Crap a lot worse now, o2 sensor is cycling at .92-.94 (almost flatline), pig rich on the wideband 10.0:1 . Step on the throttle and it goes dead lean.

Now I'm confused as hell...I swapped in another o2 sensor (i thought it was good) and it cycled at .92-.94. I guess the 02 sensor could have died right after I swapped the CAS but that's a hell of a conicidence!

Would the CAS being 180 out cause the car to run pig rich and then lean at the blip of the throttle?

I thought a dead o2 sensor reads a constant .9XX with no change reguardless of the throttle position?

[awd4kicks]

The way you show it is the way I install it with #1 cylinder on top dead center.

[black92_tsi_awd]

I'm going to try leaning of the MAFT to see if I can get the O2 sensor to start cycling. But i don't understand why it would jump to full lean with the hit of the throttle from pig rich....

Marcus, I pm'd you back.

[black92_tsi_awd]

I found out why the o2 sensor wouldn't cycle...the maf wasn't plugged in!! Sensor started cycling after that.

I had to pull 10% fuel from the idle and Mid knobs on the MAFT and got rid of the pig rich condition.

I swapped the old knock sensor (it was a Mitsu part) with a new Mitsu sensor.

Still knocking...better, but still knocking.....

[black92_tsi_awd]

I found posts on Tuners and DSMtalk about welding or jb welding the end of the knock sensor to make it less sensitive to phantom knock. Apparently 2g sensor have a solid end. Anybody tried this??

also, I checked the voltage at the harness and Chiltons says it should read 8 to 11 volts. Mine read 8.34. I wondering if the lower voltage makes it more subseptable to knock. Can any measure their voltage on a non knocking car to see if my theory holds weight??

[black92_tsi_awd]

Tried a few more things:
Swapped the pcv for a functioning one---no change
Reduced base timing to 0 degrees----slight reduction in knock


I may of found what my problem is.

All my knock is in the 2500-3000 range no matter what throttle position or load. I put the MAFT in RPM mode and added 4% more fuel at 3000 rpm last night and it cut the knock counts to <8 driving (at 0 timing) around my test loop out in the country. Bumped the timing up to 4 degrees and added 2% more fuel at 3000 and got <9 knock around the loop. Hmmm, so far so good.

This morning the knock was back, knock in the 30's So I added 4% more fuel at 3000 and had <6 knock in the next 20 min of driving. This morning was alot cooler, so i guess it ran leaner with the denser air.

God I hope this is it...I can't beleive it would be that sensitive in a certain RPM

[black92_tsi_awd]

sh$t....right back to where I was. Knocking like crazy, going up to 43 counts, pulling negative timing. Makes it tough to drive around town.

I even tried a older knock sensor with the hole in it jb welded to deafen it.

[awd4kicks]

That's a bitch Chris. Been there and done that. tried everything known to man with short term successes.

Do you have a stock EPROM chip? At one time NC and I found that the timing map we had come up with for the stroker was modified enough that it increased knock as in your case and my exhaust housing would glow just from normal in town driving. Since NC is doing your chips, I doubt this is the case. However it's worth checking in case you've gone over that threshold in the tuning map, it made a world of difference for my newest engine. We basicly went back to the stock map's design and made more minor corrections vs. the entire custom maps like we had before.

Another thing to try is high octane fuel. Even though I don't put too much weight on non-WOT knock, I have been discouraged to find that high octane fuel brought down my knock count before we changed the tune. It blew away my theory that it was phantom knock in my particular case.

[black92_tsi_awd]

I don't have a stock chip...but I can put the stock ecu (non-eprom) in and re-adjust the MAFT to compensate for the 550 injectors. Thanks for the idea

NC, do you have a stock maps for the car to kind of start over? The car does go into open loop at the 3000 rpm mark by looking at the o2 trim going to 100, I don't know enough to know if that indicates anything.

[ncgalant]

I just checked and I didn't touch your maps other than the top 2 and above 6000. I'll put up the timing maps from your ecu here and the stock numbers in the next post.

Attached File(s)

 chris_maps.JPG ( 0bytes ) Number of downloads: 0

 

[ncgalant]

here's the stock maps. All I've done is take away some of the timing between 3000-5500 to take away your WOT knock.

Attached File(s)

 stock_maps.JPG ( 0bytes ) Number of downloads: 0

 

[black92_tsi_awd]

can't see the maps on my pda, have to look tomorrow when I have a computer to look at them. i'll probably swap the ecu just to rule out the eprom ecu being the problem, maybe the knock cirrcuit on the board took a crap. i'm grasping at straws.

them i'll yank the valve cover and look for lifters that are more compressed than the others. maybe it's a lifter banging around.

Nc...I may have you go higher in the knock maps to ignore it more...

[ncgalant]

You're going down a road that many have traveled, and most have sold their car to get off of. I like your lifter solution to try to find what is causing the knock. I can go higher for you. Looking at your maps, if we're only running 13 degrees in the bad zone, then I don't know how much damage we can do with that anyway. You must have been getting bad knock at the onset of boost a few years ago for me to have taken out that much.

[black92_tsi_awd]

I looked at the lifters and they visually look OK. None look to have bled down after sitting for the last three days. I'm going to order a set of the rised "3G" lifter from MAPerformance tomorrow.

NC, what does the gm/rev translate to? Some kind of mass air flow? I'm used to see psi... I guess what represents vacume and what is "in boost"

Edit Timing Maps This is the only map I've seen. It has a different map than yours (may be DSMlink's estimate), does the gm/rev translate into vacume/psi on this chart??

Yeah you took timing out when I was seeing knock on race gas, your timing adjustments took care of it then

[ncgalant]

its grams of air/rev. The top map represents aproximately 14psi

[black92_tsi_awd]

I swapped out the ecu for the stock non eprom. Set up the Maft for 550's. It looked better at first, but once I leaned out the mid knob enough to get the short term o2 trims out of the 80's it went back to random knocking. Tune was butt ugly, +35% fuel at idle, -20 fuel at mid, knock under WOT.

New lifters come in Thurs and hopefully that kills it...if not a new chip from Nathan going higher in the knock maps is the backup plan.