Project Silver Bullet, Refining the Caliber Options

[Kazz5]

So, I pull up to the house after work, knowing I have a beating and speech to deliver to my 15yo, and there is a truck out front and guys power-washing the house.

Guess it's getting painted. I mean, I knew we were getting ready, but damn this summer's been nothing but running and bullshit and this is just more indication of how out of control it's all been.

Did I mention this weekend's now shot since we're heading to someone's welcome home party? Road trip.

Yeah, I have some control over this. I'm not completely whipped. But with the car down I've not staked my claim to weekends, etc. So I guess I've brought it all down on myself.

OK, enough whining.

Got home, beat the child, kissed the wife, paid the deposit for the painters, hooked up the laptop and dragged the juvenile delinquent out with me for a cruise.

Mid fuel trim came in around 9. It fluctuated quite a bit, but after a good 20 minutes plus of interstate driving at somewhat varying rpms, I assumed it was enough and e-mailed it off.

After supper there was a new ROM in my e-mail explaining it looked like the ECU was dumping in fuel so we're worried she's running a bit lean for just a mid trim number and we want it in the -5 to 5 range to optimally have adjustment in all directions for good AFR, mileage, etc. So the injector numbers went from 750 to 731.

Tucked in the wife and daughter, grabbed the delinquent by the ear, shot the ROM onto the ECU and went for another cruise. After a couple of short minutes the mid trim drops precipitously - near 1. Then it screws around, going back up. Then 2. Then 5. Then 4. Then 6. I started the drive home, getting off the interstate. She was in the 7s by the time I got to the garage.

Hm.

This is all just numbers to me. I'm glad someone understands it. Again, the best news is how she doesn't die at throttle lift, so driving it around's easier. The gas gauge seems to move as aggressively as always, so I assume, ECU helping or not, that she's runnin' pretty rich.

I still wonder if starting w/the Dynoflash ROM's a good idea. But I don't see a whole lot of choices.

It's more science than black art anymore, so I'll let the "master" analyze, rework, and advise!

[turbohcar]

but damn this summer's been nothing but running and bullshit and this is just more indication of how out of control it's all been.
Yeah, I have some control over this. I'm not completely whipped. But with the car down I've not staked my claim to weekends, etc. So I guess I've brought it all down on myself.


so I assume, ECU helping or not, that she's runnin' pretty rich.

As to the first part I totally agree. It's gone ridiculously fast, especially since we just bought a house, I feel I've gotten nowhere with my toys and always running around crazy or working on the house. It's madness... but lets hope that it settles when I get somewhere with my academics.

As for the assuming, are you not able to send him wideband 02 charts or values? I would think that it's way better to see wideband values rather than just mid-fuel trims. Or am I just overthinking things and you're trying to get the fuel trims to a "middle of the road" setting? I would attribute some of the difference in trim values to the difference in temperature from when you got home till when the girls went to bed as well. Of course you probably still don't want the trims that high even for a late night run.

[Kazz5]

I've tried to do some edjukatin' on it all while trying to get enough work done to seem busy. LOL.

The mid fuel trims, ideally, should come in around -5 to +5 once they settle out. Yes, they change around based on conditions, including altitude, etc. The reason we want them near those number is so that, in those extreme conditions, the ECU has plenty of room to change up as needed. If numbers are high positive or negative, I'm taking it, they have less room to fluctuate should conditions dictate more + or -.

The mid fuel trim appears to be key and is generally, initially, set by the injector "scale". That, as far as I can tell, translates to size. Changing the numbers from 750 to 731 moved mid trim down. I got an e-mail a bit ago with a new ROM saying he's stepping down to 713 to get just a bit more before we start working on WOT tuning.

From my spotty reading, it seems that, after the mids are dialed-in, variables such as injector latency voltage come into play for low trims and idle smoothness. Mix in long-term fuel trims and short-term fuel trims for low, mid, and high, and, as you can see, it gets pretty grainy.

My comment about the car running rich was based on a Mellon statement that my car was dumping in fuel (I guess that's what the higher mid fuel trim number means) and in watching the fuel gauge needle do it's imitation of a sweeping second-hand ... ... j/k, but you get the point.

There a lot of crap on all of this in the management forums at Evom. One good example: http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=207924&page=2

On another note, with a scarred up nose on this Evo, what do folks think of this front:

It's IX style, not VIII, but it incorporates the front of the splitter that I can't seem to quit looking at - and would kinda show up the BR Deluxe IC... LOL

[turbohcar]

The mid fuel trims, ideally, should come in around -5 to +5 once they settle out. Yes, they change around based on conditions, including altitude, etc. The reason we want them near those number is so that, in those extreme conditions, the ECU has plenty of room to change up as needed. If numbers are high positive or negative, I'm taking it, they have less room to fluctuate should conditions dictate more + or -.

The mid fuel trim appears to be key and is generally, initially, set by the injector "scale". That, as far as I can tell, translates to size. Changing the numbers from 750 to 731 moved mid trim down. I got an e-mail a bit ago with a new ROM saying he's stepping down to 713 to get just a bit more before we start working on WOT tuning.

From my spotty reading, it seems that, after the mids are dialed-in, variables such as injector latency voltage come into play for low trims and idle smoothness. Mix in long-term fuel trims and short-term fuel trims for low, mid, and high, and, as you can see, it gets pretty grainy.



My comment about the car running rich was based on a Mellon statement that my car was dumping in fuel (I guess that's what the higher mid fuel trim number means) and in watching the fuel gauge needle do it's imitation of a sweeping second-hand ... ... j/k, but you get the point.

There a lot of crap on all of this in the management forums at Evom. One good example: http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=207924&page=2

Thanks for the info, that was really what I was looking for.

Two thumbs up for the front nose, I like it

[kapoosh]

nice to see some progress! I have to get a wideband setup in mine here sometime soon.

And to the front end! the IX style front looks way better than the viii IMHO.

[Red_06_EvoRS]

I like the look of the nose too. I got the air-dam extension at MOD '07 for my IX but it is set back several inches from the leading edge and also made of black rubber so it isn't as visible. Another thing to keep in mind if you are thinking about getting any air-dam extension and also want to auto-X is Mitsu suggests also installing air deflecters to direct more air to the front brakes.

[Kazz5]

Thanks, all. Not sure that auto-x will need additional brake cooling, but road coursing should and I WANT to be doing that next spring come hell or high water!

As to the front, I'm torn. First off, the current nose needs a re-paint. Second off, I'm not happy w/the fitment of the carbon-fiber hood and am following up with Seibon. Thirdly, I have an idea of mixing the Apex Silver with some of the Blue By You (not in the can, but in design on the car) for a look I peeped on a TV show. Fourth (!), I like the look of the stock lip in black. Anybody with me at MOD last year saw me stop and stare from a distance at all the front ends in a row and got general agreement that the black stock lip looks better than most any other lip treatment or aftermarket that we saw. FIFTH, I'd LOVE to do some air splitter aero cuz the damn box needs it, especially on the road course, AND the APR front bumper above integrates the front of the splitter (Beatrush underpanel would finish it all off).

So, as I said, I'm torn - or, at least, undecided!

Back to the tune.

Running on the 4th ROM dropped the mids to a 1.8-ish. I wonder how far it was going to fall regardless of dropping the scale, and, now, when it's going to bounce back up. LOL. But, it is where it is.

Mellon was happy enough with the log to ask for a brief 2500-4500 WOT run which I just finished in 3rd and 4th and e-mailed it off. Currently running 23psi...

[black92_tsi_awd]

I vote for the new front end.

Hang in there, seems like tuning is the biggest pain in the a$$ when it comes down to it. Anybody can bolt on a new speed part...but tuning the car is the hardest and most important!

[awd4kicks]

I really like the look of the new front end and the body color matched splitter. I am leery of a one piece nose/splitter though. I would think for the racing events you want to attend (Not to mention the drive entry angles in Peoria) that it would be better to have a replaceable splitter. Is the nose made out of fiberglass or the factory material?

BTW - I am really impressed that Mellon is willing to work over a semi-long duration with you as you guys go back and forth with logs and tunes. Very cool! You are getting there Kazz!

[Kazz5]

I purchased a 3 month subscription in order to get things running, mod, and get it dialed in once more. I changed things up and did most of those mods before we really started tuning. Perhaps that means I should get more done? LOL At this point, if I'm not up for a new turbo, it'd be about different cams, perhaps a larger throttle body and intake manifold. I'll be much happier to get the tune and then the drivetrain sorted out, first.

Fixed a nasty boost leak in the lower IC piping hose - just a clamp. Also, another, lesser leak in the upper IC piping to the BOV. I only tested up to 12psi. Changed out the filter on the Buschur Racing intake as well.

Turned in 4 2500-5500rpm runs this evening. Again, the driveability's back. I can't seem to overstate how much that, alone, makes the car that much better to drive, period.

[Kazz5]

Just wanted to post to say we're still making progress. On the 9th ROM file now. The struggle to get the right injector scaling may be over. It takes a while for those fuel trims to settle out at times, it seems. That, and the Buschur Racing intake seems to create some issues at idle. Some of the fight has been over the idle w/AC on.

Getting anxious to move on to the next mods and get out!

Have a great weekend, everyone!

[Kazz5]

Getting closer.

After I realized I wasn't getting peak boost 'til 4800 (Mellon asked), I adjusted the wastegate actuator arm. This thing came with the WR8 turbo from FP. I talked about adjustments pre-install, etc. And I pointed that out to Mitsu prior to install.

At any rate, I turned the thing likely 3 whole turns this AM.

Without touching the MBC, peak boost increase 2psi and hits around 800 rpm sooner. I'm of the opinion I should be able to get peak another 800 rpm sooner still, but I think it's clear the MBC ain't controlling the peak anymore? It must still be releasing at the psi it did before because I didn't adjust it. But the WGA is now not letting enough go as quickly?

Gonna need a basic turbo primer here. I didn't try turning down the MBC because, with the added psi and earlier hit I ceased after a couple of logged WOTS and sent them off. We'll see what Mellon says.

[JMoushon]

Not too familiar with the adj. WGA's, but... I would do 2 things... I would open the MBC all the way (PSI down), and keep turning the WGA in the direction you did until you are happy with the spool and threshold. It sounds to me like the WGA is holding open a bit, perhaps it's pre-loaded? Eithe way, I'd crank the arm with no MBC interference, then adjust final pressure from there. When ppl use the 14b/t25 on a Honda, for example, boost is adjusted on the cheap by bending the WGA bracket, which at the same time holds the flapper open at all times a small amount and killing the spool time.

[Kazz5]

This one's adjustable. And that's a good idea.

I turned her back one full rotation and went out. Peak seems to have come down a bit, but it arrives late again - like around 4800 or even later.

Taking the good suggestion (thanks!) I turned the MBC all the way down. She hadn't cooled off yet so I didn't adjust the wastegate. Peak is about 17, however, it doesn't get here until like 6000 rpms!

I'm going to let her cool down and then start adjusting it again. *Twiddling thumbs*

[JMoushon]

Taking the MBC out of the equation will give you a good read on what the WG is really doing, less artificial pressure signals. Did the company you bought the turbo from give you a general WG PSI spec?

[Kazz5]

Adjustable 17-25. I'm around 18 now...

[JMoushon]

If the WG is adjustable 17-25, I wouldn't think the MBC would be necessary until 26+ psi... Also, if you turn the WGA all the way out/up, theoretically you should see 25psi, give or take. In my mind, anything lower than that would be achieved by a set amount of pre-opening of the flapper, which in turn should increase spool time due to the automatic diversion of the exhaust gases. Perhaps there is more trickery than I know of, which is not tough to imagine... What level of boost are you trying to run? Do you have the fuel to support 25 psi from that turbo, and is 25psi within it's efficiency range?

Sitting here thinking, I guess the adjustment could (probably does) simply modify the load on the spring, not pre-open the flapper... If that's the case, having the valve pre-opened would be a non-issue. Is the WG an internal pull-type like the Mitsu turbos?

[Kazz5]

Unfortunately, at least at the moment, I can't tell you about the design, engineering, and true function of the WGA. Here's a url for the unit, however: http://store.forcedperformance.net/merchan...=Lancer-TurboHW. It won't tell you much, either. LOL.

I turned her up again and took her for a drive. Peak was 19, but it was damn late: in the 6000s. So, confused, frustrated, whatever, I turned up the MBC. I arrived at 22-23psi at around 4K on the dot with minor creep to 24 by redline. When I got home I turned it down just a pinch. I assume that will get rid of the creep.

So, turned down it delayed boost peak? Turned up, it creates creep. Somewhere in the middle is the answer. Hopefully, that's where I am.

I know that a lot of the purpose of this part was to resolve the problem the stock WG had in tapering the boost. I guess the behavior I saw makes sense, then. Too low and the WG relieves the pressure too easily. Turned up and it keeps it on.

Had to run an errand tonight. I behaved - almost. White SRT-4 was leavin' the grocery store just as I was and headed my way so I followed. Got a light next to each other, but I didn't want to sit there runnin' 5Krpm waiting for green. LOL. So, when it turned green I took off average-to-slow. He hit it a bit once he was in second as his statement. *Shrug*

We lined up in the left turn lane and waited for the next light. He made the turn and, by the time I hit second I couldn't stand it anymore. Floored it and listened to the music as I went around on the right. Probably stock, maybe not hittin' it hard, dunno.

But it's nice to have my car back!

[JMoushon]

Kazz, where are you located? I looked at the url, and watched the vids... I think I have a pretty firm grasp on the concept, and a quick call to FP verified this. The WGA is technically a spring/preloaded MBC in and of itself. The only tough point, acc'ding to FP, is making sure the zero point is set correctly. PM me if you want, if you're local we can likely get together.

[Kazz5]

Well, if it's hitting 22-24 peak by 4K I think I've got it adusted?