DSM's are comprised of cheap parts. Options

[AWD DSM 1]

I don't think that guy has a clue. Darryl's transmission is for the most part stock (or stock parts from sister cars) and he's pushing 680+ through it. Show me a stock honda or fiero tranny that can do that. I don't think they can. And what's with all the stinkin motor swaps? Who wants to spend another $2k to break into the 14's? Morons, that's who. There are cars out there that can be quick for just a little $$, but I've yet to find one that has all the great features of my AWD DSM.

Heck, even the $500 "junkers" could usually be fixed and run for a long time yet. I saw a guy a few years back at the shootout that had 200k+ on his stock bottom end and was running 11's all day long. If you know where to go, you can fix almost anything that goes wrong with these things for almost nothing. Hell, if you do the work yourself, you can fix a timing belt breakage with around $200-300.

To each his own, but for me it's all DSM....

[KOU In3]

"I would stay away from the DSM cars [laser, eclipse, talon] due to way too many problems, there cheaply built with low quality parts, and high $$$ to fix.. Honda's are great for mods and cheap to hop up but large amounts of $$$ are needed to get the suspension dialed in for twisties...."

Sorry but I couldn't disagree more with this statement. I'd like to adress a few parts of it.

High $$$ to fix- Are you kidding me? With most of us doing our own work here and parts so easy to come by it's almost as cheap to work on as an old Chevy.

Hondas are great for mods- What?! I/H/E and you're done. Check out the article in Sport Compact about how much money they have dumped into trying to reach 200whp in an Integra. I think they got a whopping 3hp from a few hundred bucks on underdriven pulleys.

Large amounts of $$$ to get a Honda to handle- I thought this is where Honda were supposed to shine. Great factory double wishbone suspension just not enough power to do much about it.

Overall seems like another guy that doesn't know his stuff. I still think the 'you gotta pay to play' rule applies and a lot of DSMers play hard. Maybe this guy just needs to take his bat and ball and go home.
Give me my DSM any day.

[SCCA Stang]

I completely disagree with the statement that this no clue dumb-ass put out. The '93 GSX that I have now is my very first import ever bought. I bought the car for $4000, I put $400 in paint work, including removing the rust (very little, the only rust was caused because it was hit). I have $85 in a tune up, $150 in exhaust (installed), and $300 in tires (mounted, balanced) and I have $275 in some new injectors. that brings me to a grand total of $5210.
show me any honda or acura for that matter that has $5210 total in the car and I will take it on any day of the week and twice on sunday.

you would spend atleast $7000 on any honda (that the car was in any kind of good shape) and then you have to mod it. the parts to mod it are close to two times as much as the parts for the DSM (unless you're runnin APC)

what a dumb ass!!!!!!

[RacerX11]

I don't think that guy has a clue. Darryl's transmission is for the most part stock (or stock parts from sister cars) and he's pushing 680+ through it. Show me a stock honda or fiero tranny that can do that. I don't think they can.

I wouldn't use transmission durability as a measure. Sure, Darryl's tranny is close to stock, and holding up well to the huge power, but how many close-to-stock, or mildly modified DSM's on this board alone have eaten transmissions with less than half his power? Several of you have been through more than one. There a quite a few Fiero transmissions bolted behind stout big and small block V8's, as well as turbo/supercharged V6's and the only thing they destroy are tires.

(Sorry guys..I couldn't let this be a one-sided thread )

Marty

[4g63tsi]

I don't agree with this guy, but I do see some reality in his points. True most DSMers do all their own work. It has been my experience that most Honda/ Toyota drivers have it done for them. From that point of view I see where he could say dsms are $$$$$. Hell some places charge you 400 bucks just to change the clutch on a dsm. I dont know of many other cars that a clutch change would cost that much. But as far as overall value goes. A 2G AWD dsm was around 22-23 grand brand new. Inflate that a few years and youre at about 25. What car can you get that is AWD with the kind of Hp, handling, and style that a DSM has. If you want a 4 door you could get the cheapest WRX and that s about it. Hondas are good cars, but to get them into the 14's you either have to swap engines 2-5grand or build up your engine and turbo charge it 3-5grand. DSMs seem like the best bang for the buck.

[MidwestDSM]

In my opinion, DSMs offer way more bang for your buck. My best friend has a 97 Integra GS-R with some sticky ass tires, intake and exhaust. Car alone costs 14k, plus the parts...hes about 15200 into it at this point. Then take my 13 year old $3000 car....barely modded at all (K&N, straightpipe, suspension...). I can beat the mess out of him from 2nd gear, and if I jump it right even from a stop (FWDs are tough though....). In my opinion, this guy is a pudwhack.
Just one more thing...Andrews distributer went out on his GS-R. Part alone: $340, no install.
Not alot that you can break on a DSM that is going to cost that much...

[AWD DSM 1]

I wouldn't use transmission durability as a measure.  Sure, Darryl's tranny is close to stock, and holding up well to the huge power, but how many close-to-stock, or mildly modified DSM's on this board alone have eaten transmissions with less than half his power? Several of you have been through more than one.  There a quite a few Fiero transmissions bolted behind stout big and small block V8's, as well as turbo/supercharged V6's and the only thing they destroy are tires.

(Sorry guys..I couldn't let this be a one-sided thread   )

Marty

And how many of those trannies that got eaten had 100k, 150k+ of very abusive driving on them? I guess I shouldn't have mentioned the Fiero's, since I really don't know much about them, but I just hate it when every honda owner with an intake, fart can, and a set of cut springs thinks his car is fast. Hell I'll be the first to admit that my car ain't fast... I have a slew of 14.7+ slips that prove that, but I'll garuntee that I can still whoop on some honda butt. I rebuilt eveything in my car for good measure, not because it really needed it. Block had 160k on it as near as I could tell. Oh, and my tranny has about the same... still works good! I sold Eric one that had 185k on it... I haven't heard any problems with it yet.

Bottom line, DSM's are cheap to own, but not necessarily put together with cheap parts.

No hard feelings Marty, I know you drive a domestic...

[akamiami]

I guess I shouldn't have mentioned the Fiero's, since I really don't know much about them

Garner (eclipsegst) does, becuase he owns one! BWAHAHAHA!.......Fiero. HAHAHA

[eclipgst]

Hey now, my fiero is running better than my eclipse so dont knock the fiero. bwahahaha!

[natedogg]

This is an old argument that one can find on almost any import or domestic board. I'm sorry for saying it, but I'm getting kinda sick of it. The old money vs. fast vs. reliability argument. I've come to believe over the years of owning a DSM that it is a cheap and fairly reliable way to go fast as long as you don't take it very far like me, Marcus, Kris, Josh, or Darryl. If you do, then you're faster but you're breaking more parts and spending more money. Its the same way with Mustangs. You can pick one up for cheap. Make it pretty fast for little cash and its still pretty reliable (though it won't handle as well as a stock DSM). But once you take that next step and throw a 150 shot instead of a 100 shot at it or change the pulley for more boost on the supercharger you just installed, get ready to break some stock drivetrain parts or prematurely wear you engine out and spend more money.

Conclusion...speed is an addiction and I need my fix. Sometimes it seems like I'll spend almost anything for it.

[Temp_Me96]

I dis agree for the most about what this guy has said but I use to work out there and I had a job at one time with Port Services Co. to make our own test track and drive all these cars at different rpms to gear for certain times just to see which 4g63 well hold. So we weeded out the really bad crank walkers and other poorly built cars. SO I would have to say from that experience that the cars at one time werent built very well (some would get past us Im sure). This may be why some people have bad opinions of these cars. May have nice parts but installed poorly.
As for the price of parts for hondas compared to at least the Eclipse RS the hondas are much cheaper. Building a Honda is like building a Chevy building an Eclipse RS is like building a old Dodge (because it is Chrysler). I would have to say the guy only did partial research.

But dont all Auto Manufacturers have there problems this is why its good to respect all rides!

[AWD DSM 1]

But dont all Auto Manufacturers have there problems this is why its good to respect all rides!

Totally agree. I can respect a Honda, just not the driver who had to pay to have his intake put on and claim's it now runs 12's.

[wortdog]

I sold Eric one that had 185k on it... I haven't heard any problems with it yet.

The only problems I have with it is that the synchros are pretty tired(go figure), there's a minor coast down noise I've always had since I put this tranny/transfer case in, and its a bit hard to shift using a shortened 91-94 shifer with a 90 tranny, which is my fault for getting a 90 tranny in the first place.

On the plus side, it doesn't grind unless you try to shift as fast as Spy does

All in all its not doing too badly for a 13 year, 195,000 mile tranny. No metal in the fluid, and the bell housing hasn't cracked.

[Temp_Me96]

Knock on wood, knock on wood, HURRY! LOL!

[zach]

the first thing anyone should consider is that

Speed cost money, no matter what car it is. You can make any car as fast as the next if you have the money.
If you want the fastest car, start with the fastest car. I can't afford the fastest car.

I chose a 1g based on a few simple reasons,

AWD, already TURBOCharged, theres millions of them, cheap to buy, and tons of aftermarket.

compare that to any car, for example, a honda...
NOt AWD, NOt already turbocharged. there is millions of them, they can be cheap to buy, and there is tons of aftermarket.

HP+Traction=fast, Fast=broken, broken=money... applies to all cars.

[natedogg]

This guy really has no clue. He just likes the sound of his own voice. Yes, the 4G63T is an interference engine. So do an $80 timing belt job on it every 60,000 miles. Whooptedoo!

Quirky FI? Never heard this before. How can FI be quirky? Its pretty simple. 3D maps - RPM vs. engine load vs. inj. duty cycle/pulse width all contained within the ECU. I've never had a problem with the FI system and never heard of any problems on all the DSM boards.

I could care less how much experience this guy has with other cars. Its obvious he has little to no experience with DSM's and is only quoting stuff he thinks he knows about our engines. The 4G63T has proven time and time again to be one of the most bullet-proof turbocharged import engines on the market and Mitsu knows it. Otherwise they wouldn't feel comfortable about boosting it to 19 psi from the factory in the Evo's.

Give him the link to www.dsmtimes.org . And remind him that this 'faulty' engine has won quite a few world rally championships.

[SCCA Stang]

nate, that about sums up my opinion on the subject