F430's Options

[Hornswoggler]

I think another thing that is rarely taken into consideration is the driver.

On one hand we have a financially successful person such as a business owner or doctor that can afford a car like a new F430 Ferrari who has little time to hone his skills at driving such a piece of artistic work or the cajones to see it's limits. Some may call this person a self-indulgent-wiener.

Then you have a tough as nails, push it to the limit, self made street car master who has logged more hours on the ragged edge of his driver seat than any normal commuter, in the single most powerful factory turbo-charged four cylinder of all time, which by the way is designed and built to handle like it's on rails no mater which way, or at what level the controls are articulated. Paddle shifters have nothing on this cat.

4G63 AWD's and the mad men that drive them FTW!

I agree with the driver comment. I would venture to say its 90% driver, and 10% hardware. With the F430 and modded EVO being similar on paper (I assume weight and horsepower are close?), it might be closer to 95% driver, 5% car.

If that successful person has little time to hone their skills, they DO have the disposable income to actually pursue the hobby. Autobahn Country Club has a ~$35k member buy in, and I don't think there are any spots open! Any of those members can be considered financially successful, and probably quality as enthusiasts as well. I know its popular to root for the underdogs, but sometimes those underdogs don't even make it to the grid. you gotta have a certain amount of disposable income to even play the game. Easy to desire victory over a doctor or lawyer with high-dollar car, but you can't win from the sidelines either. Call them a weiner, but atleast they are in the game.

I have probably said this before, but street driving and serious track work are at two different levels. Feel free to call BS, but I may ask if you have a re-evaluation after your first event (which will be spring 2009, BTW.. be ready!! )


As for the OP, my money would be on the F430. EVO's tend to have a few bugs in them under hard driving, like brake booster failure and a few other gremlins I saw this season in NASA time trials. Ferrari's are track ready out of the box and very capable. This thread is more of an underdog vs overdog discussion. I usually root for the overdogs.

[awd4kicks]

First off let me explain the obvious... anyone here would rather be financially successful than the alternative. As you stated, I was rooting for the underdog. Let's leave it at that.


How about this though...

I agree that spirited street driving does not equate to good road circuit driving.

With that said, I would be willing to lay a wager in favor of my favorite street driver against a 'Good road circuit' driver... ON THE STREET! Yeah, it's illegal...but that's where the real world happens and that's just a plain fact.

My dream race starts with a sprint from a dead stop through a long straight that ends in a dead mans 90-180 degree turn at the end where the course moves across city like streets. Intersections, turns at high speed with medians and curbs as real life obstacles. After a decent run through this, the speed would be maxed out as the race moved onto a long curving free-way like setting to where the best driver and all-around fastest car would win.

This is a real life Mad Max style run for the best driver/car combo.

I can guarantee that no dedicated drag car ,or stable little auto cross car will be the winner. It will be a cross bred sumbitch with high horse power and complex traction capabilities, not to mention a well seasoned and fearless driver.

So I agree a great street driver may not be the best Circuit driver. And I feel that a good road circuit driver can be a good street driver, but he may not be able to successfully translate from the kid gloves of banked turns and smooth asphalt to an uneven, some times ragged surface with deathly hard edges smeared with varying levels of traction.

BTW-I've witness runs like this, but to see a couple cars duking it out or even making time runs like this would be the best racing EVAR! Not to mention some of the most demanding driving that actually already happens to a level that would shock some.

[Hornswoggler]

Don't get me wrong, Marcus. That sounds like a lot of fun!!!

It does sound more biased towards all-out horsepower than driver skill... would have to see this city circuit you put together.

I see two main obstacles to running something like this: Traffic and safety.

You can solve the traffic situation by closing the streets down before hand, kinda like the temporary street circuits (i.e. St. Petersburg, Long Beach, Detroit, etc). You close the street down, and its pretty much a road course, just temporary.

If you run this while traffic is live, ugh, thats just an accident waiting to happen. If I got in an accident due to my own misjudgement, I can handle that... but I don't want to run into some innocent family in a minivan. They didn't sign up to be part of a race.

Safety is closely related. It sounds like part of your proposed thrill is the lack of gravel pits, tire barriers, EMT, etc. so part of this would be my personal preference for reduced risk. I can't convince you on that part... but if this is on public roads with other traffic, it comes back to the safety of others.

Now, if the coast is completely clear.. hmm, I don't even want to be tempted as legitimate track venus are avaiable within a few hours drive where we can go as fast as we want. The safety of the track is there for good reason, I would prefer to have those facilities available when I push the limits.

Next spring, ride along with me for a session and I'll show you what a paltry 246 rwhp can do!

As for the driver skill gap between good street hooligan and seasoned track rat, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm not sure how you can pass such judgement without experiencing much road course action, you might be humbled.


You know, my traqmate could possibly facilitate renegade hillclimbs...

[awd4kicks]

It Would be EXTREMELY fun Horns.

Safety is a consideration that can not be dismissed, but let's just say that due to other circumstances there is no one else around except other gear heads.

The thing is I did agree with you on the expertise of the road circuit driver.
Being a gear head through-and through, my ideal race does exploit the vehicles ability maybe more so than the drivers. With that said, I am asking more of the car in this race than any other single style race, like drag, or auto cross. Plus this course would kill or seriously injure an unexperienced or scared driver. To me this would be the ultimate race making the car and driver give more because of the different aspects throughout.

I guess...even though I have always admired and wanted to be a road circuit driver, I cant help but wonder what would happen if you took some of them out of their element. Some would win with flying colors I presume, but I bet others would not be as competetive as they think. (I am not directing this at anyone in particular)

It's all good, and I will take you up on the ride along.

[Kazz5]

City street racing? Hm. Grand Prix of Monaco comes to mind as one example...

[awd4kicks]

Those types of things came to mind for me as well. With street cars instead.