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Posted by: Dan Boles Nov 3 2008, 12:28 PM

Hypothetically... If a Gt35R Evo running 24-25psi was to run a new Ferarri F430.. What do you think the outcome would be? (the newer f430 are a 480hp car)...

Posted by: JBone Nov 3 2008, 06:30 PM

It would indeed be a good race.

Both cars are within 100lbs of each other. With that much boost, you would be looking almost the same amount of hp. Part of me wants to believe the Ferrari, but I can't honestly justify it, other than it just looking and sounding so much sexier than the Evo.

Set it up Dan

Posted by: awd4kicks Nov 3 2008, 06:41 PM

Poor Ferrari owner...

Posted by: RacerX11 Nov 3 2008, 09:15 PM

Would the F430 be gunmetal grey?

Posted by: Dan Boles Nov 4 2008, 07:33 AM

Red, Grey, Black, Silver, White...
Beggars can't be choosers...

Posted by: ncgalant Nov 4 2008, 09:28 AM

I'd say it depends on the length of race. The race would be to the evo by 1/2 a car at the 1/4 from a dig. Any type of rolling race would go to the 430. It would be nice to say you had beaten a car that costs more than your house and car combined.

Posted by: Dan Boles Nov 4 2008, 09:37 AM

Hrmm...
I don't think that is accurate...
In fact, I would bet my next pay check on it.

Posted by: natedogg Nov 4 2008, 10:10 AM

Me too.

Posted by: JBone Nov 4 2008, 06:18 PM

Jealous

Posted by: JMoushon Nov 4 2008, 09:34 PM

It would be truly interesting to see a real-world match-up of this caliber. The power is there on buth ends, and as JBone has pointed out, so is the weight.

With that said, I believe if the Ferrari were to be able to get dialed in and run a decent set of tires, it would be very close. I assume you mean a drag race, by the way.

The thing I would be more concerned with in this is consistency. I believe if you could get the Italian to dead hook, it would lay down extremely tight patterns. The Evo, on the other hand, does not benefit from a nearly foolproof trans set-up. Paddle shifter FTW, especially in a best 3 of 5 hot-lap. Heat soak FTL.

Best single time, 5 attempts with prep time in between? Evo all day.

Posted by: awd4kicks Nov 4 2008, 11:19 PM

I think another thing that is rarely taken into consideration is the driver.

On one hand we have a financially successful person such as a business owner or doctor that can afford a car like a new F430 Ferrari who has little time to hone his skills at driving such a piece of artistic work or the cajones to see it's limits. Some may call this person a self-indulgent-wiener.

Then you have a tough as nails, push it to the limit, self made street car master who has logged more hours on the ragged edge of his driver seat than any normal commuter, in the single most powerful factory turbo-charged four cylinder of all time, which by the way is designed and built to handle like it's on rails no mater which way, or at what level the controls are articulated. Paddle shifters have nothing on this cat.

4G63 AWD's and the mad men that drive them FTW!

Posted by: JBone Nov 5 2008, 12:09 AM

NICE

But, the self made street car master is a connoisseur.

Posted by: Dan Boles Nov 5 2008, 12:40 PM

By Sajeev Mehta
January 28, 2008

The days when Ferrari and Lamborghini were the sole, unquestionable, untouchable owners of the “supercar” moniker are gone. The Carrera GT’s clutch may have permanently besmirched Porsche’s “everyday supercar” rep, but the roadster's at least as dramatic as Maranello’s magic mounts. The SLR may be a dour machine driven by a brain-dead debutante, but the scissor-doored McMerc still has supercar written all over it. And those pesky Americans keep doing things to the Corvette that increase its credibility in the field of extreme machines. So is the “entry level” Ferrari F430 becoming a little, uh, pedestrian?

What are you nuts? One look at Ferrari F430 and it tattoos the word “supercar” on your retinas. While taller and hunkier than previous Dino-descended mid-engined mounts, the F430’s Pininfarina-penned lines possesses the kind of purity of line associated with High Renaissance art. Unlike its in-house stable mates and Bologna-born competition, the F430’s mid-engine proportions and curvilinear contours are quintessentially Italian, quintessentially super.

I didn’t need to tell you that. But the F430’s interior is something of a shock, a radical departure from Enzo’s philosophy of selling his customers an engine and throwing the car in for free. It's a sacred place, blessed with first-class materials arranged with minimalist purity. Credit is due to the optional “carbon fiber driving zone” and its F1-inspired tiller. Though silly at first, the little red hash at the twelve o’ clock position provides entirely useful Pavlovian conditioning (for a mere five grand).

Yes there are elegant details, but the stunning gauges are all, as befits a cockpit that places the pleasure of driving in the premier position. Taken as a whole, the F430’s sumptuous leather-wrapped interior feels like a stripped down racer. The engine-under-glass effect underlines the point. The branded induction system is the automotive equivalent of a brace of elephant guns gleaming in Hemingway’s weapons case: immaculately oiled, ready for action.

Firing-up the F430’s 4.3-liter V8 is like watching the opening scene of a James Bond movie: predictably ridiculous, yet giddy-making in its promise of extreme violence. Engage the F1-style gearbox and you’re away. A. Long. Way. Away. Calling the F430 fast is like calling Miss America determined. Zero to sixty is a sub-four second experience of mammoth, manic intensity; it’s like being shot of a cannon into a black hole. The dual-stage exhaust goes from a martini-soaked Frank Sinatra to a cocaine-crazed Richard Patrick in less time than it takes to crank a stereo knob.

The F360 Modena was a high-revving beast whose blood curdling howls were the mother of adrenal acceleration. The F430 is a different animal entirely, endowed with Corvette-worthy low-end grunt. Those eight little Italian cylinders stump-up 343 ft-lbs of truck-like torque, taking the sauce all the way to 483hp, at a [still] preposterous 8500 rpm. Trundle around town? Si, we do that too. Bend time? That too.

The Ferrari’s F1 transmission is proof that racing improves the breed. The original system was a herky jerky joke. By now, the paddle shift transmission is as good as if not better than VW’s DSG. The F430’s manumatic engages the clutch with balletic grace– or NHL savagery. The F430 gently whisked me from the daily grind and gawking SUV owners. If Jimi Hendrix was reincarnated as a gearbox, I’d be standing next to his Fire.

That’s because the F430 is a Little Wing on four massive 19” wheels. Thanks to an impeccably tuned suspension, meticulously selected ratios and Satan’s own powerband, the pace is fervid, the progress distraction-free. A little seat time quickly confirms Lamborghini’s German intervention was the wrong move. Without question.

The Italian F430 is opera to the Gallardo's heavy metal. The Gallardo is a weapon, but the F430 is the pinnacle of pistonhead performance pleasure. Even with rapid steering inputs, the G-forces build gently, effortlessly pushing you against its retro-Daytona seats. The steering feedback is so honest you’d think Simon Cowell is behind the headlights. This Detroit-fettled enthusiast will never forget that wonderful Saturday afternoon; the F430’s effortless rush makes exiting any bend a wake-up call for geographically biased automotive snobs.
Hell, even the Italian's electronic nannies have a unique, Ferrari themed persona. Never isolating and nebulous, the handling interferenza is as customer savvy as a concierge at the Waldorf-Astoria. That said, the F430's [optional] ceramic brakes' linear stopping and progressive punch leaves little need for computerized intervention.

I have never been so hardwired to a machine before; if Ferrari had an online dating service, Match.com would be screwed (so to speak). Yes, there are faster cars. Certainly, there are more luxurious cars. Reliable? Ha! But provided it’s not in the shop, the Ferrari F430 always delights, with its sublime handling, perfect mid-corner power and a roar that echoes in your mind for the rest of your years...


______________________________


Then in the night you awake... sweating profusely... The Whippoosh noise echoing in your ears... knowing full well you overextended yourself with this purchase, just to lay claim to having one of the fastest cars around... What was that car on my tail...

Every night the dream is the same..
Every night I awake... I may own a fast pasta rocket.. I may be a doctor.. but taht silver 4 door sedan blew my doors off... and not by a little bit..

My car must be broken..
I'll take it into suds, or K&M to get it checked out... There must be something wrong with it... has to be.. no way did a little 4 banger eat my lunch, and dinner... hell I even think it took my after meal mint....

___________________________________

I bet he isnt loosing any sleep over it. Then again, some of these self endulgant weiners may get bent over things like this.

Posted by: 93dsmowner Nov 5 2008, 02:39 PM

Dan you are a character

Posted by: dualdj1 Nov 5 2008, 04:20 PM

Indeed. But another nice read.

Posted by: Dan Boles Nov 5 2008, 04:22 PM

"Just because one is a character, doesn't necessarily mean that one HAS character."

Posted by: 93dsmowner Nov 5 2008, 08:25 PM

Why are you talking me out of it?

Posted by: awd4kicks Nov 5 2008, 09:28 PM

Wow, that is a new level of word-smithing and obscure referencing that even spyonu2007 would have been proud of.

Posted by: JBone Nov 5 2008, 09:44 PM

I'm liking the movie quotes

Posted by: Dan Boles Nov 6 2008, 07:31 AM

May his Soul rest in pieces.
Glad you caught that one Jbone, I wondered who would interject...


If I could be one guy for a day... its would be the wolf... He would have to buy a new car though... An acura nsx... what a joke.

Posted by: Hornswoggler Nov 7 2008, 06:49 PM

I agree with the driver comment. I would venture to say its 90% driver, and 10% hardware. With the F430 and modded EVO being similar on paper (I assume weight and horsepower are close?), it might be closer to 95% driver, 5% car.

If that successful person has little time to hone their skills, they DO have the disposable income to actually pursue the hobby. Autobahn Country Club has a ~$35k member buy in, and I don't think there are any spots open! Any of those members can be considered financially successful, and probably quality as enthusiasts as well. I know its popular to root for the underdogs, but sometimes those underdogs don't even make it to the grid. you gotta have a certain amount of disposable income to even play the game. Easy to desire victory over a doctor or lawyer with high-dollar car, but you can't win from the sidelines either. Call them a weiner, but atleast they are in the game.

I have probably said this before, but street driving and serious track work are at two different levels. Feel free to call BS, but I may ask if you have a re-evaluation after your first event (which will be spring 2009, BTW.. be ready!! )


As for the OP, my money would be on the F430. EVO's tend to have a few bugs in them under hard driving, like brake booster failure and a few other gremlins I saw this season in NASA time trials. Ferrari's are track ready out of the box and very capable. This thread is more of an underdog vs overdog discussion. I usually root for the overdogs.

Posted by: awd4kicks Nov 7 2008, 10:36 PM

First off let me explain the obvious... anyone here would rather be financially successful than the alternative. As you stated, I was rooting for the underdog. Let's leave it at that.


How about this though...

I agree that spirited street driving does not equate to good road circuit driving.

With that said, I would be willing to lay a wager in favor of my favorite street driver against a 'Good road circuit' driver... ON THE STREET! Yeah, it's illegal...but that's where the real world happens and that's just a plain fact.

My dream race starts with a sprint from a dead stop through a long straight that ends in a dead mans 90-180 degree turn at the end where the course moves across city like streets. Intersections, turns at high speed with medians and curbs as real life obstacles. After a decent run through this, the speed would be maxed out as the race moved onto a long curving free-way like setting to where the best driver and all-around fastest car would win.

This is a real life Mad Max style run for the best driver/car combo.

I can guarantee that no dedicated drag car ,or stable little auto cross car will be the winner. It will be a cross bred sumbitch with high horse power and complex traction capabilities, not to mention a well seasoned and fearless driver.

So I agree a great street driver may not be the best Circuit driver. And I feel that a good road circuit driver can be a good street driver, but he may not be able to successfully translate from the kid gloves of banked turns and smooth asphalt to an uneven, some times ragged surface with deathly hard edges smeared with varying levels of traction.

BTW-I've witness runs like this, but to see a couple cars duking it out or even making time runs like this would be the best racing EVAR! Not to mention some of the most demanding driving that actually already happens to a level that would shock some.

Posted by: Hornswoggler Nov 7 2008, 11:14 PM

Don't get me wrong, Marcus. That sounds like a lot of fun!!!

It does sound more biased towards all-out horsepower than driver skill... would have to see this city circuit you put together.

I see two main obstacles to running something like this: Traffic and safety.

You can solve the traffic situation by closing the streets down before hand, kinda like the temporary street circuits (i.e. St. Petersburg, Long Beach, Detroit, etc). You close the street down, and its pretty much a road course, just temporary.

If you run this while traffic is live, ugh, thats just an accident waiting to happen. If I got in an accident due to my own misjudgement, I can handle that... but I don't want to run into some innocent family in a minivan. They didn't sign up to be part of a race.

Safety is closely related. It sounds like part of your proposed thrill is the lack of gravel pits, tire barriers, EMT, etc. so part of this would be my personal preference for reduced risk. I can't convince you on that part... but if this is on public roads with other traffic, it comes back to the safety of others.

Now, if the coast is completely clear.. hmm, I don't even want to be tempted as legitimate track venus are avaiable within a few hours drive where we can go as fast as we want. The safety of the track is there for good reason, I would prefer to have those facilities available when I push the limits.

Next spring, ride along with me for a session and I'll show you what a paltry 246 rwhp can do!

As for the driver skill gap between good street hooligan and seasoned track rat, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm not sure how you can pass such judgement without experiencing much road course action, you might be humbled.


You know, my traqmate could possibly facilitate renegade hillclimbs...

Posted by: awd4kicks Nov 8 2008, 01:11 PM

It Would be EXTREMELY fun Horns.

Safety is a consideration that can not be dismissed, but let's just say that due to other circumstances there is no one else around except other gear heads.

The thing is I did agree with you on the expertise of the road circuit driver.
Being a gear head through-and through, my ideal race does exploit the vehicles ability maybe more so than the drivers. With that said, I am asking more of the car in this race than any other single style race, like drag, or auto cross. Plus this course would kill or seriously injure an unexperienced or scared driver. To me this would be the ultimate race making the car and driver give more because of the different aspects throughout.

I guess...even though I have always admired and wanted to be a road circuit driver, I cant help but wonder what would happen if you took some of them out of their element. Some would win with flying colors I presume, but I bet others would not be as competetive as they think. (I am not directing this at anyone in particular)

It's all good, and I will take you up on the ride along.

Posted by: Kazz5 Nov 8 2008, 04:28 PM

City street racing? Hm. Grand Prix of Monaco comes to mind as one example...

Posted by: awd4kicks Nov 9 2008, 09:31 PM

Those types of things came to mind for me as well. With street cars instead.