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DSMCentral _ Kills _ Road Racing is like Crack
Posted by: wortdog Oct 7 2007, 07:13 PM
Very nice Dan.
Posted by: SCCA Stang Oct 7 2007, 08:47 PM
pretty sweet... I am green with envy.... I want to that so bad, just wish I could trust the GSX to hold up to the long range, hard pounding endurance needed to complete an event like that
Posted by: JBone Oct 7 2007, 10:01 PM
That looked like SO much fun, dude. 
One day, my friend, we will race each other like that. Frickin' sweet 
Posted by: awd4kicks Oct 8 2007, 05:46 AM
Good vid man. You know I wanted to be there.
Posted by: natedogg Oct 8 2007, 08:35 AM
Very cool, man. I'm kicking my self for selling the Evo right now.
Posted by: natedogg Oct 8 2007, 09:41 AM
Yeah, you've gotta get yours running and to the track to see how it compares. Were there any Evo's or DSM's out there?
Posted by: ncgalant Oct 8 2007, 10:57 AM
Freakin sweet! I hope I get my turn some day.
Posted by: SCCA Stang Oct 9 2007, 09:37 PM
or trailer it so that you can still get home if it does break
Posted by: Zmann42087 Oct 10 2007, 12:26 AM
That looks like a blast!
Posted by: akamiami Oct 13 2007, 03:48 AM
You rock Spy!
Posted by: SCCA Stang Oct 13 2007, 10:46 PM
or trailer it so that you can still get home if it does break
So what your saying is, leave it tuned for balls out power, just bring a trailor so you can tow it home... hmm...
Let me think..
You spends XXX dollars, just to go out and break it (if not retuned), but its ok, since you have a trailor...
What if it breaks in the first 5 minutes of the first 20 minute run (1st of 8 20minute runs), on a two day event?...
Oh yeah, thats right... Its all good because you can just trailor it back home.. That makes it all better....
I have a buddy whos car failed on the second run of the first day.. We worked on it for the next day and a half to make it drivable back home.. I think the pain of missing the opportunity to push the limits due to his inability to race on the track, far outweighed the anguish of having to fix it. Having a trailor would of made no difference, he still missed out on the next 120minutes of track time.
Dont think for a second that a trailor is the cure all for on the edge tuning in an endurance race. The whole point is to be there, do it and learn from it. You learn nothing by blowing an ic pipe/engine and trailering it back home.
my comment was meant to be taken very lightly... sorry that you felt that I was serious
Posted by: Hornswoggler Oct 21 2007, 09:42 AM
yes, Putnam was a HUGE hit of the go-fast crack pipe! Too bad not more of you made it out... but there is always next year. For a car guy who likes spirited driving, this is a lot of fun.
responding to gsxracer80:
The thrill of a track day is worth selling anything you don't have confidence in and buying something more stout/robust/reliable. Road course is NOT the place for fragile cars or those with expected failures. I have seen DSM's out there, and seen them break more than any other car. They have a reputation for leaking oil on the tracks (which is bad). Some of this may be a result of overtuning or pushing it too far? Reliability > speed when it comes to getting a full days worth of lapping. (fun and learning is more the focus than competitive laptimes).
As for the EVO question, those are very capable cars out there. Power should be the last thing added, keep the engine reliable until you are extracting 95% of what you can from the chassis. Most ppl new to these events thing power > * but I can provide data to show otherwise. Brakes are VERY important, and so are tires. But back to teh evo question, if done *right* and reliable, they can be VERY fast!
We'll have to get more of you guys out on track next year! Putting aside the money for somehting like this will make you MUCH faster than any mod of comparable dollar amount. I see too many ppl focused on making the car faster, too many neglect the driving skill component. Being a fast/experienced street driver is not the same.
Dan, do you feel more skilled as a driver coming out of this event?
Posted by: Hornswoggler Oct 21 2007, 12:11 PM
I know the feeling!
Posted by: Hornswoggler Nov 6 2007, 03:39 PM
Possibly 6 or more?
hah!
I will be attending plenty of days, will post them up to gauge interest. I will try to promote atleast one or two as a BIG area caravan to a nearby track... will have more dates by spring.
Everybody here should try a track day atleast once in their life. Don't have a track worthy car? Rent one. It is WELL worth it. You will have a lot of fun and shoudl learn a lot assuming you attend an HPDE (drivers education) and not just a cheap lapping event (which usually do not include instructors). NASA was OK for first event, but Audi club and bmwcca both put on much better classroom and in-car instruction (atleast that is what I hear). Will have to do some cross-promoting here if enough on dsmcentral are seriously interested.
Posted by: JBone Nov 6 2007, 07:52 PM
I can always be a driver for one of the cars. Don't want one getting lonely in the parking lot while you're punishing the other like a hooker who didn't turn enough for her pimp.
Posted by: awd4kicks Nov 7 2007, 11:31 PM
We will see how the Stang goes over the winter.
In the mean time I'm getting very bored with talking about cars and finding that there are a lot of folks out there that don't walk the talk. DSM owners have always been a do or die breed making a lot out of very little. I would like to see the members of DSMCentral stand back-up and be accounted for.
Aside from the fact that there are more GENERALIZED car forums to get caught up in, DSMCentral is still here.
Who want's to race? I'm willing. To hell with breaking shit! I've been sitting in the background with a 500 plus HP engine under the hood and more upgrade parts to handle it than I can even count... watching and listening as local fellas talk about their close to stock sports and street cars and call themselves 'Car guys'. BAHHH! (Edit: This is NOT a poke at the Cat 'Car Guy' list...this is a generalization to keep me from picking on any one person. GET OVER IT!)
Well the facade is over, we can sit around bull shitting all the time or we can get in our damn cars, race them and let the chips of respect fall where they may. Networking is great if it gets us to our purpose, but it is not supposed to be the end result.
THAT'S RACING for me! On the drag strip, the auto-x, the road corse or even from light to light or a round an off ramp. Yes, I know that our fun loving, spirited driving is under attack from all sides. I'm keenly aware of the high and mighty scrutiny of so called 'Professional drivers' that are discounting street driving aptitude. Screw that load of horse shit, racing is racing if you don't want to do it fine, I just don't want to hear any lame ass excuses.
I want to kick some panzy butt... and for the record that is most of whats out there. (BTW - I didn't say 'All' to any nut swinger that wants to go running to a friend that actually has a fast car and tell them I hurt your feelings.)
These are the late night rantings of the ODT! And Kiss my Ass, I haven't been drinking. 
Posted by: JBone Nov 7 2007, 11:58 PM
Insert worshipping icon here
HAHAHAHA.
Well, with recent job offers finally emerging, I hope to have some sort of automobile to cut my driving skills teeth on.
Posted by: awd4kicks Nov 8 2007, 12:03 AM
Jbone, all you need is the right car to express your driving talents. You are a driver and I look forward to seeing you out racing in some fashion or another.
Posted by: black92_tsi_awd Nov 8 2007, 07:20 AM
Amen brother!
I've never understood people who spend $1000's on a car to make it look like it's a "race car" but never take it out and see what it's potential is. Whether it's
a dragstrip or a corner burner. Why have 500hp and not know what it will do in the 1/4? Why have 12" wide tires on a lowered suspension, and not take it autocrossing?
Kicks, the only thing you wrote I disagree with is that I think you can still be a "car guy" and run around is a close to stock car. People got to start somewhere and if your using (abusing) your car the way God intended, I'd classifiy that person as a car guy.
Posted by: natedogg Nov 8 2007, 08:11 AM
Hell yesss!! 
Posted by: Kazz5 Nov 8 2007, 08:36 AM
Bring out your truck and play!
Posted by: awd4kicks Nov 8 2007, 06:51 PM
Chris, I respect your input...you were out at the track more than any other local DSM owner this year.
At the same time you gotta know I am not putting down 'Car guys' that can't afford or choose not to do certain upgrades to their ride as long as they are willing to walk the talk.
The guys that ARE frustrating me are the ones that talk the big game with guys that have put a ton of blood sweat and tears into this hobby, but don't intend to indulge themselves. The guys that just want to be seen in a group they think is cool. The fags that can't handle life by themselves without latching on to someone else's party. (A little over the top, maybe) But I'm not taking a back seat to any POSER!
I won't call them out in the middle of a get together. That's not my way. It's in the racing and it's in the details of the ride. We all can tell the difference between someone that is really interested versus the motor mouth wanna-be.
The point is, the ratio of posers to real true car guy lifers is pretty lop sided in the wrong direction. I'm saying any DSM with an EVOIII 16g and some supporting mods can be king shit in a group at any one time. There are big dogs out there, and a true DSM'r will recognize them and respect their lot in the car arena.
It's all good under the hood, as long as we are out there living our dreams and taking our spot in the pole position of life.
It's time to stop preach'n and start teach'n!
Posted by: natedogg Nov 9 2007, 09:32 AM
Bring out your truck and play!
I think I'd rather bring out my Talon and play.
Posted by: Kazz5 Nov 9 2007, 10:07 AM
Bring out your truck and play!
I think I'd rather bring out my Talon and play.
It's road course worthy! C'mon!
Posted by: natedogg Nov 9 2007, 04:18 PM
I'd have to run a more lightly sprung WG actuator. I'm running a vac line straight from the turbo nipple to the WG actuator right now and still boosting past 30 psi.
Posted by: Hornswoggler Nov 9 2007, 07:11 PM
marcus, glad to see the motivational post! Hopefully it gets a few more ppl convinced to get that neverending project back in road-worthy shape, and out to some events!
I am really not sure who you are talking about who does not "walk the talk". I figured it wasn't me, since I am pretty darn active... figured it wasn't the cat car guys (not even an official group) as 80%+ of them partake in sanctioned motorsports, couldn't be from the cicenet Old Chicago meeting... as well over 60% of them do either autocross, track days, wheel-2-wheel racing, or drag racing.
By process of elimination, are you referring to DSM central as the ones who need to do more driving, less yacking? Why didn't we get any DSMCentral bites for the Putnam event the "cat car guys" went to back in October? Seems like all I hear from DSM guys is the worry their car might not make it, and they need a trailer as there is great chance it will break. I would like to see some DSM road course reliability next year so my opinon of them can be raised.
I'll take the guess you were talking about CSS, and I probably would have to agree with you, lol!
I disagree that street racing is the solution. Nothing wrong with the occasional fun when the coast is clear, but its like a trickle of water at best compared to the Fire Hose spy got to drink from at Putnam. There is really no comparison, and highway/street racing really isn't that much higher in the pyramid than the BS'ers (which I am still not sure who you are referring to).
The automotive hobby means different things to different people. I prefer the driving, while others do it for the wrenching, the building, the fixing, the dreaming, the car shows, the bragging rights, etc. I think the diversity is what makes the BS more fun... I enjoy hearing about different approaches or ways to enjoy your car.
From your posts, it sounds like you have somebody or some group specifically in mind with your call-out. Maybe you can PM me who that is so your posts in this thread are less confusing? lol. I REALLY hope to see some of you DSM guys make it out to the road course next year... and if you want to be king shit for the day, I can always hook you up with the traqmate for a session and see if you can spanky my laptimes.
Posted by: wortdog Nov 9 2007, 08:13 PM
Why didn't we get any DSMCentral bites for the Putnam event the "cat car guys" went to back in October? Seems like all I hear from DSM guys is the worry their car might not make it, and they need a trailer as there is great chance it will break. I would like to see some DSM road course reliability next year so my opinon of them can be raised. Well, my DSM didn't make it because it burnt down
Posted by: Hornswoggler Nov 9 2007, 11:22 PM
Definately a legit excuse!
Did i hear you were already working on a replacement project? If so, looking forward to hearing about it!
Posted by: awd4kicks Nov 10 2007, 09:35 AM
I would love to take you up on that Horn Swallower.
J/KSeriously, I like you Horns, but don't be surprised if I creep up on your lap times after an event or two.
No I wasn't referring to you about walking the talk, but I was refering to your personal opinion that people that have not been to a road corse are completely clueless about real driving. Maybe I've read too much into it, but to me driving levels are just that. Levels of a whole ability. Some people have it and some don't. Have you ever ridden with spy on the street? Sure it may be a few seconds of bliss here and there, but its as ragged edge as I would go on any state maintained (read crapy) road. On the way to the CICE net gathering I folowed RoadRacerWhite around an on/off ramp at rediculous speeds. The Talon had the rear end angled out a bit just try to keep pace with the speed that his trained skill allowed him to carry. Again, not a lot of time, but not all together clueless either.
I have wanted to road race all of my life, but for some reason I haven't made that a priority. When I began to auto-cross the old timers told me not to worry with road racing because auto-cross is much more technically challenging. I gather that they are right, but that there is some rift, weather amusing or not, between the road racers and auto-crossers. In any case I love all styles/levels of driving as long as it is challenging.
Posted by: awd4kicks Nov 10 2007, 10:00 AM
Cool, I had been considering that myself.
Posted by: awd4kicks Nov 10 2007, 10:13 AM
Yes it's going over well so far. I've been deemed the 'Tool' and compared to Image already. yeah, we are exactly a like. Funny!
Posted by: awd4kicks Nov 10 2007, 10:20 AM
Yeah. I guess I am just like him.
Posted by: awd4kicks Nov 10 2007, 10:45 AM
hA HA HA HA... Good one Spy!
Posted by: Hornswoggler Nov 10 2007, 11:14 AM
It doesn't have to be a roadcourse to gain disciplined car control skills.. with either some auto-x schools or LOTS of auto-x seat time, you can build a very similar skillset. Both HPDE (High performance drivers education, I won't use the term "racing", as these are non-competitive events designed around learning) and auto-x have their pros/cons with much overlap. If you want a real impression of how they compare, be sure and talk to somebody who has done both. I have my preference and have always had respect for the driving skills for those who are very good at auto-x.
If all somebody has done is spirited street driving on their own, I will say that 98% of those drivers will be absolutely humbled at their first couple auto-x or HPDE's as they might be getting passed by much slower cars. Spy might have been in the other 2%, lol! Then again, with more practice and maybe a lil chassis tuning, he can close that 4 second gap to the stock-power SRT-4 on street tires. Power isn't everything and it takes a performance driving experience to realize this. Spy, how accurate would you say my statement is saying that spirited street driving and HPDE are at two different levels? I think there is a pretty big gap, especially once you climb the ranks into intermediate and advanced run groups, its just not safe to consistently push those levels without run-off room and safety equipment.
I agree, some people may have the talent, and others not so much... with a lot of people falling "in between". Take sports for example, it is always a mix between natural talent and disciplined practice. With enough of one, you can usually overcome the other... but to be at the highest level, you need a lot of BOTH!
I have no idea your auto-x experience, my earlier comparison is between street-only drivers who think they have mastered driving, and those with disciplined driving education. Big gap there. Auto-x school would count as driving education, i did not mean to leave them out in my initial statement.
Either way, the smack talk is fun and I think we can have a good time with it. It does bring publicity to these type of events (auto-x, hpde, etc) and gets some good conversation going. Looking forward to seeing a few of you at the track next year, and if there is anything I can do to help you beat my laptimes, I would be thrilled! (i.e. in-car instructing, preparing for first event, data analysis, etc.). This is a fun hobby and I want to see everybody get the most from it.
Posted by: Shaun@AMS Nov 10 2007, 10:11 PM
In the mean time I'm getting very bored with talking about cars and finding that there are a lot of folks out there that don't walk the talk. DSM owners have always been a do or die breed making a lot out of very little. I would like to see the members of DSMCentral stand back-up and be accounted for.
Aside from the fact that there are more GENERALIZED car forums to get caught up in, DSMCentral is still here.
Who want's to race? I'm willing. To hell with breaking shit! I've been sitting in the background with a 500 plus HP engine under the hood and more upgrade parts to handle it than I can even count... watching and listening as local fellas talk about their close to stock sports and street cars and call themselves 'Car guys'. BAHHH! (Edit: This is NOT a poke at the Cat 'Car Guy' list...this is a generalization to keep me from picking on any one person. GET OVER IT!)
Well the facade is over, we can sit around bull shitting all the time or we can get in our damn cars, race them and let the chips of respect fall where they may. Networking is great if it gets us to our purpose, but it is not supposed to be the end result.
THAT'S RACING for me! On the drag strip, the auto-x, the road corse or even from light to light or a round an off ramp. Yes, I know that our fun loving, spirited driving is under attack from all sides. I'm keenly aware of the high and mighty scrutiny of so called 'Professional drivers' that are discounting street driving aptitude. Screw that load of horse shit, racing is racing if you don't want to do it fine, I just don't want to hear any lame ass excuses.
I want to kick some panzy butt... and for the record that is most of whats out there. (BTW - I didn't say 'All' to any nut swinger that wants to go running to a friend that actually has a fast car and tell them I hurt your feelings.)
These are the late night rantings of the ODT! And Kiss my Ass, I haven't been drinking.
im sure i can find a car for you to get down with.............
Posted by: Hornswoggler Nov 10 2007, 11:35 PM
Spy, I am not trying to pick on your times at all nor trying to put you on the defensive. I used your example for a couple points: (and I use you because most here can relate or most familiar with you and your setups)
1. Adding horsepower does not solve everything around road course
2. The way to overcome this gap is chassis tuning (which includes both suspension, brakes, and even tires) and more practice could EASILY put you at par or ahead. This supports point #1.
your TA + suspension, brakes, tires, and seattime should be able to crush all SRT-4 challengers. Joe is a great driver, so it will definately take some work, but not out of scope.
... now a very well setup evo should be able to leave me in the dust.
edit: I know I have mentioned this before, but its worth mentioning again, for a first time event, you were looking VERY impressive out there! Definately a step or two above most others in your run group.
Posted by: awd4kicks Nov 11 2007, 12:24 AM
It's a legitimate point Horns, and maybe it's just me because I cross train my car. But I don't think too many DSM folks do power only. For me I set it up as good as I can afford on all fronts. this means it wont be the best at anything, but it should hold it's own on everything.
AS far as my comments about Spy pushing the limits. In all cases I was referring to the EVO not the TA. There IS a huge platform difference there.
Still it's all good, just a clarification and point that makes the SRT-4 comparison less of a factor.
Posted by: Hornswoggler Nov 11 2007, 11:27 AM
Nothing but respect, the smack talk is both fun and motivational.
we'll definately have to bump this one come spring. I'll try my best to promote next slo pny on cicenet, hope we can get quite a few to show there.
2008 will be the year of the driving.
Posted by: awd4kicks Nov 11 2007, 08:00 PM
I agree Horns! Thanks for the future support of the drag events!
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