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Posted by: Patterson353 Nov 19 2009, 08:06 PM

As some of you know i bought the spyrocket off my brother (Iron Goat) a while back. I put a big 16g, 660 injectors, 255 high press fuel pump on it. It already had a fidanza flywheel, Act 2600# clutch put on by my brother. Nate has tuned it a few times and he had it screaming. Well i'm still seeing knock so i'm going to change a few things. First the lifters and then move my maf to see if i cant get the trims to be more consistent.

Posted by: Patterson353 Nov 20 2009, 05:48 PM

I have much bigger plans for it but just dont have the money right now. I hope to tear into it this winter after the holidays. I would love to see 660 horse to the wheels

Posted by: Patterson353 Nov 23 2009, 09:35 PM

I'm gonna need some help from some of you godfathers on what parts i need to acheive 660 horse. I know its gonna cost alot but lets just assume money doesn't matter. So if you guys had an unlimited budget what would you buy to acheive my goals?

Posted by: dualdj1 Nov 24 2009, 09:38 AM

well I don't know DSM's all that well, but I wouldn't think it'd cost THAT much. OBV you'd want the right internals to handle the power, then good intake/exh/injectors and a bigass turbo

Posted by: black92_tsi_awd Nov 24 2009, 02:40 PM

272 cams
1200 injectors
255 fuel pump minimum I would guess, but you may have to go aeromotive. I've got a formula somewhere.
sheetmetal intake
3" exhaust
DSMLink, for the sake of tuning. I would go speed density setup. I'm not sure the GM Maft would support that horsepower.

BIG ASS Turbo...ask Darryl

Posted by: awd4kicks Nov 24 2009, 08:17 PM

I'll give you some insight from my perspective on this. Please understand that I'll be going strictly from memory and addressing these items from a standard theory point of view. I won't mince words over little difference of HP here or there.

Start with a built rotating assembly, particularly good connecting rods and pistons. If I remember right the stock rods are only good to 400 or 500 crank HP. At 660 WHP you will need to be turning at least 795 HP at the crank based on 17% parasitic drag. (that number is conservative because it's not logical for the parasitic drag of the driveline to go up with the HP, but you get the idea.)

The other main components needed for that level of HP will be the turbo and an aftermarket engine management system as mentioned. Keep in mind that I would guess a GT35R turbo is probably churning for all it's worth to reach 660WHP, so you may need something bigger to do it comfortably.

As far as engine management is concerned, I would bet that a seasoned veteran could tune a good set-up to 660WHP with a DSMlink. To be honest I don't know if DSMlink has any limitations on air flow readings or anything else that would keep you below your target. At the level your talking an EMS will do everything you ever wanted and about a dozen other things. In either case the most important thing to remember here is that the difference between a blown engine, a moderately fast car and a legitimate 600-700WHP car... is a good tune done by a reputable and experienced tuner. Pay the money up front and save yourself a bunch of headaches.

For the supporting system I would check the calculations for fuel consumption required at that HP level. Run somewhere in the neighborhood of #8 or larger fuel line from the tank to the fuel rail. A rear sump with an in line pump and filter is what I would recommend. Size injectors appropriately, but you may have to go to 1600's which have been a pain to tune for street driving/idling in the past. There is probably a better alternative these days to get the HP and idle smoothly, so do some research on the injectors.

Other good supporting mods would be the biggest cams you can get for your combo, cam gears for optimum tuning of your selected cams, racing exhaust, a sheet metal intake, and an upgraded cooling system to keep your investment safe. With the right turbo, I don't think a fancy head, exhaust headers, fuel rails or such are required, but some of them could help spool time, and eeking out that last bit of HP.

Then consider upgrading the driveline. Somewhere between 400 and 500WHP street tires become useless for launching and produce much frustration for the driver trying to do so. Sticky tires will absolutely require a good clutch and at nearly 800HP you better get a racing clutch. With that combo you should probably also look into investing in driveshaft shop axles to cut down on the carnage.

That right there is a VERY expensive list of toys my friend. I'm not trying to dissuade you, but those are honestly the things I would consider if I were aiming for that WHP level.

To put it into perspective Dan's EVO and my Talon run (or used to) somewhere in the neighborhood of 500WHP on average. My Buscher short block has aftermarket rods which they claim are only good for 600 crank HP. My tires are useless to launch with even that much HP and I'm afraid to dump the clutch with slicks for obvious reasons.

Heres another thing to consider. My transmission is fully upgraded with beefier EVOIII gear sets and double synchros. This gear set is the strongest Mitsubishi gearing available for our transmissions. With that in mind, I'm told by John at TRE that if one of my EVOIII gears is good for say 550ft/lb.s of torque...that it is only good for that level of power for about 20 minutes! So if you are just quarter mile drag racing, the gears may last a while. However, if you drive this monster on the street, flogging it mile after mile, it may not last as long as you would think. The DSM stock gear set is obviously weaker, hence it has a much shorter life span at high torque loads.

Then don't forget about safety equipment if you want to go to the track. A 660WHP gutted DSM will lay down some ET's and MPHs that are sure to get the attention of track officials. They will require the appropriate roll cage, and depending on the mph you may have to look into getting a chute.

I would love to see the Rocket built like this to see what she would do. If it were me, I would probably shoot for a wHP level that allows me to retain a much better street attitude though. To me the versatility is more fun than a dedicated drag car. I can't tell you how sorry I felt watching all those drivers like Darryl, have to sit in their sweltering cars, wearing their racing suits, helmets and head restraints waiting for the line to move as track temps were well over 100 degrees! So be careful what you ask for, I know a few guys that wish they didn't go the way of the extreme drag race set-up.

In any event let us know what you decide and keep us in the loop on what components you get for it.

Posted by: Patterson353 Nov 24 2009, 09:56 PM

Thank you all for responding!!! I quess my main goal is to have it as fast as i can and still drive it on the street. I deff don't want just a drag car. I still want to smoke as many v-8's as possible. But i would also like to take it to the track from time to time.
I quess i'm not sure about the hp. I'm sure i would be happy with 500awhp. I want to build it to be fast but not breaking parts all the time. They say horsepower is addictive and i beleive it cause i want more!!!!!

Posted by: dualdj1 Nov 25 2009, 08:30 AM

What I try and look at when building cars for multipurpose, is not necessarily the max power, but the best all around power curve. If you can sacrifice some top end horsepower and beef up bottom end torque/smooth the overall power band, you're going to get much better performance if you still want to do some autocrossing, street driving, etc. It's nice to be able to say kick up the boost for more HP when you need it, but to me a smooth power curve that's beefy over the whole rpm range is much better than a high peaking curve.

Again with this philosophy though, you want good drivetrain components. You just may not need as heavy duty of engine components, but if you're going to do it right and can afford it, get the best so it'll last longer. I'd think a well ported head would help you as well, even if it's just a well ported stock head.

There's a good program out there called Desktop Dyno, that lets you plug in displacement, cams, basic engine mods (turbo, induction, headers, etc), and gives you a rough HP/Torque curve. It'd be worth checking out if you're going to spend some serious money.
http://www.proracingsim.com/desktopdyno.htm

Posted by: natedogg Nov 26 2009, 09:56 AM

Great post, Marcus. One thing to keep in mind is even at 500 whp you will break parts including some of your expensive aftermarket stuff. Be prepared to spend more money after building your car to fix it. I'm not trying to talk you out of anything either, but personally I couldn't handle all the nickel and diming that the dsm cost me with broken parts. If I had kept the HP down I likely would have saved myself a lot of time and money. But on the other hand I wouldn't have experienced the grins of being able to tear all four tires off in 3rd gear. There's always a sacrifice somewhere.

Posted by: black92_tsi_awd Nov 26 2009, 08:12 PM

400-450hp in the Rocket would kill a lot of street cars, and some at the track. And wouldn't be too bad on parts.

According to http://www.race-cars.net/calculators/et_calculator.html 450 hp in a 2800 lb car is in the 10.7 range at 127!

Posted by: kapoosh Nov 27 2009, 02:31 PM

You'll never be happy with a certain amount of Horsepower. When I first got the Evo, I thought 400WHP would be awesome....now that it's actually there I just want more. I havent even reached 500WHP (should be there in the spring) yet and it already sounds boring. I wish I could skip it and go straight for 600!

But yes clutches get expensive, luckily I havent broken any drivetrain pieces yet.

Posted by: Patterson353 Nov 28 2009, 01:37 PM

I totally agree Kapoosh, i will never be happy with hp. Thats the thing that pisses my wife off the most!! Nate had quesstimated mine at maybe 350 to the wheels but when you drive it every day the thrill fades away and starts to feel slow.

What turbo would you guys recomend? I have been looking at FP3065 but i'm not sure. Would you build a bottom end or go with a built one like buscher stage 3? Can you send the tranny off and have it rebuilt with stronger parts? How much will a 4 bolt rearend hold safely? I just want to try to think of everything that may be a weak link in the build. I'm trying to get a good plan together then get a rough idea on how much it may cost before i do anything.

I really appreciate all the input so far. Thank you

Posted by: Patterson353 Nov 29 2009, 04:24 PM

I have two DSM's in the garage right now that i have to get rid of before i can think about doing anything to mine. The one i have the motor all together just have to put on tranny and drop it in. The other one just got back from Kalina and have to put it all back together. I have way to many projects going right now. Plus i just noticed oil leaking around the oil cooler that i need to fix.

Posted by: black92_tsi_awd Aug 25 2010, 08:33 PM

You want help tuning this thing or what?

Sure I can barely keep my junk together, maybe I'd do better on other people's cars! 8)

Posted by: dualdj1 Aug 26 2010, 11:00 AM

He's tryin to get engine ready for the wife's car right now. Probly be a bit before he gets back to this one

Posted by: 93dsmowner Sep 21 2010, 12:46 AM

Go as far as you can on the 16g, doing supporting mods for later. 10s are quite possible on the 16g.

Posted by: black92_tsi_awd Oct 31 2010, 06:57 PM

Ran the Spyrocket today...that thing is fast. THe Golfball got him low but up top passed me like a freigh ttrain!

Time to get that thing to the track man!

Posted by: 93dsmowner Nov 1 2010, 09:03 PM

Good to hear it's running better.

Posted by: dualdj1 Nov 2 2010, 02:00 PM

it still definitely needs some work/upgrades. Got a couple other engine projects goin on, soon as that gets done i think it's gettin a complete overhaul too.

I got a crank polished for him for real cheap from a buddy of mine, thought it might have to be ground but came out nice. If anyone else needs a crank polish for a rebuild, let me know! once he gets block back from Mullvains, hopefully we'll get his wife's engine done.

Posted by: 93dsmowner Nov 2 2010, 11:48 PM

QUOTE (dualdj1 @ Nov 2 2010, 03:00 PM)

Posted by: Patterson353 Nov 4 2010, 11:42 PM

QUOTE (dualdj1 @ Nov 2 2010, 03:00 PM)

Posted by: Patterson353 Nov 4 2010, 11:50 PM

QUOTE (93dsmowner @ Nov 3 2010, 12:48 AM)

NICE!

Man I need to make it out to his place sometime next week since I mostly work nights. See what's goin on and maybe run the Rocket

Posted by: 93dsmowner Nov 7 2010, 07:36 PM

Shit man sorry to hear that! I didn't get the chance to make it out this week. Maybe me and Zeb can come out some night and put that crank in and maybe a little action too!

Posted by: Patterson353 Dec 18 2010, 07:13 PM

standard is helping tune it. running much better. getting air in valve cover when i do a boost test on it!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: black92_tsi_awd Dec 19 2010, 07:11 PM

Do I compression test...I got one if you need it.

Posted by: Patterson353 Dec 19 2010, 09:19 PM

yea i just bought one. prolly do it tomorrow

Posted by: black92_tsi_awd Dec 19 2010, 09:21 PM

Don't forget to hold the TB blade open when cranking...I always forget.

Posted by: Patterson353 Dec 19 2010, 09:23 PM

will do thanks

Posted by: Dan Boles Dec 20 2010, 11:51 AM

I recall running that thing in the bird a while back.. It was running very nice

Posted by: dualdj1 Dec 20 2010, 12:04 PM

QUOTE (Patterson353 @ Dec 19 2010, 09:19 PM)

Posted by: Patterson353 Dec 20 2010, 04:45 PM

QUOTE (Dan Boles @ Dec 20 2010, 11:51 AM)

Posted by: treydawgs4g63T Dec 20 2010, 07:48 PM

glad to here your getting the project up and going... need to get one myself. If you need any help just hit me up, i work night shift now so im avalable most of the late afternoon/early evening and of course weekends. Plus i would like to check out you dsm stock pile.

Posted by: black92_tsi_awd Dec 20 2010, 08:35 PM

QUOTE (Patterson353 @ Dec 20 2010, 04:45 PM)

Posted by: Patterson353 Dec 21 2010, 12:05 AM

lots of noise and grinding its preload. my pedal is wore out to so i cant adjust it.

Posted by: black92_tsi_awd Dec 21 2010, 01:59 PM

Weld an additional nut on the clevis while you have it apart for additional adjustment.

I bought Shep brass bushing when I rebuild mine this year. Replace all the bushing and then weld it up.

Posted by: black92_tsi_awd Dec 21 2010, 08:15 PM

Here that link for adjusting the clutch rod http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYJxQyjIhUw

Posted by: black92_tsi_awd Feb 20 2011, 10:38 AM

Any progress?

Posted by: dualdj1 Mar 22 2011, 02:42 PM

This build next IMO

Posted by: Patterson353 Aug 9 2011, 08:21 PM

Speed Density, e85, fic 1250s, 25#s boost= Me So Happy!!!!!!!

Posted by: bluzvr4 Aug 9 2011, 08:26 PM

QUOTE (Patterson353 @ Aug 10 2011, 02:21 AM)

Posted by: Patterson353 Aug 9 2011, 08:48 PM

got the stuff this weekend. just put e85 in today!

Posted by: bluzvr4 Aug 9 2011, 08:50 PM

QUOTE (Patterson353 @ Aug 10 2011, 02:48 AM)

Posted by: Patterson353 Aug 9 2011, 09:06 PM

me to!! i got plenty more to buy!

Posted by: bluzvr4 Aug 9 2011, 09:09 PM

QUOTE (Patterson353 @ Aug 10 2011, 03:06 AM)

Posted by: dualdj1 Aug 10 2011, 07:46 AM

yeah E85 you need about 40% more fuel IIRC. But there are bigtime benefits, especially boosted

Posted by: mitsu90 Aug 10 2011, 05:27 PM

I'm want a ride

Posted by: bluzvr4 Aug 10 2011, 06:04 PM

QUOTE (mitsu90 @ Aug 10 2011, 11:27 PM)

I'm want a ride

Posted by: black92_tsi_awd Aug 11 2011, 07:58 PM

QUOTE (bluzvr4 @ Aug 10 2011, 07:04 PM)

Posted by: bluzvr4 Aug 12 2011, 12:56 AM

QUOTE (black92_tsi_awd @ Aug 12 2011, 01:58 AM)

Posted by: awd4kicks Mar 8 2013, 07:41 PM

What ever happened to Patterson and the Spy Rocket?