<http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=206707&highlight=dsm>
I'm not the greatest at putting up links. I hope that it worked. It is freakin' hilarious
Full Version: Pretty freakin' funny
I was cruisin' through the machv forum and stumbled upon this:
<http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=206707&highlight=dsm>
I'm not the greatest at putting up links. I hope that it worked. It is freakin' hilarious
<http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=206707&highlight=dsm>
I'm not the greatest at putting up links. I hope that it worked. It is freakin' hilarious
lmfao Those guys are a gag everyone needs to read that, some are scared and some thing their the SH**... one guy said:
"I walked a white Talon once. It said 16V AWD Turbo on the side. It was kind of embarrassing, my first street race. My parents were in the car and I tried to launch in 3rd. He was thru the intersection before I got going, but I nailed the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts, didn't even get to 4th. I had about six cars on him when my lane merged with his. He passed me at about 100, crossing the double yellow to do so, and gave me the finger."
for one the cars don't stae AWD they say ALL WHELL DRIVE... lol they guy is a flammer... My favorite moto is "Mustangs are like tapons, every Pu**y has one" lol
Those guys are a gag everyone needs to read that, some are scared and some thing their the SH**... one guy said:
"I walked a white Talon once. It said 16V AWD Turbo on the side. It was kind of embarrassing, my first street race. My parents were in the car and I tried to launch in 3rd. He was thru the intersection before I got going, but I nailed the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts, didn't even get to 4th. I had about six cars on him when my lane merged with his. He passed me at about 100, crossing the double yellow to do so, and gave me the finger."
for one the cars don't stae AWD they say ALL WHELL DRIVE... lol they guy is a flammer... My favorite moto is "Mustangs are like tapons, every Pu**y has one" lol
That's pretty funny. I had no ideal that the Stang owners were so afrade of us.
I must say tho, alot of them must have close to stock stangs to be getting there ass handed to them by us. It doesn't take that much for them to be in the 13s as well. They sounds like a bunch of newbies. Go to the track and see how many Mustangs you spank. There are just as many 12 and 11s 5.0s as anything else.
My friend had a TT Stealth with some mods. Ran real nice too. He got his ass handed to him by a supercharged stang during a HWY street race. The stang pulled 5 car lenths from a 8-MPH roll.
Also whats with them calling our exhaust fart tubes? Have you ever heard a Mustang with a full exhaust? They are damn loud too.
On the street, I really don't fear Mustangs even tho I'm sure I will loose to one some day
The only thing you should really fear is the new SC Cobra comming out. Most of the fast ones don't run on the street for some reason. Maybe because they are too loud. They tend to stay at the track.
I would like to have a run at a few cars I have seen in Town tho. I've seen some cherry classic cars cruzing around Normal. I'm sure they would spank me, but I'd still like a run with them. Also I saw a Rainbow colored Camaro (I think it was) that sounded damn mean. It looked ungly as hell, but sounded like it could eat a Viper cruzing at 15mph. I think I heard a SC spinning as well. Anyone know about this car? I only saw it once when I first moved here, so it might have just been passing through.
William
I must say tho, alot of them must have close to stock stangs to be getting there ass handed to them by us. It doesn't take that much for them to be in the 13s as well. They sounds like a bunch of newbies. Go to the track and see how many Mustangs you spank. There are just as many 12 and 11s 5.0s as anything else.
My friend had a TT Stealth with some mods. Ran real nice too. He got his ass handed to him by a supercharged stang during a HWY street race. The stang pulled 5 car lenths from a 8-MPH roll.
Also whats with them calling our exhaust fart tubes? Have you ever heard a Mustang with a full exhaust? They are damn loud too.
On the street, I really don't fear Mustangs even tho I'm sure I will loose to one some day
The only thing you should really fear is the new SC Cobra comming out. Most of the fast ones don't run on the street for some reason. Maybe because they are too loud. They tend to stay at the track.
I would like to have a run at a few cars I have seen in Town tho. I've seen some cherry classic cars cruzing around Normal. I'm sure they would spank me, but I'd still like a run with them. Also I saw a Rainbow colored Camaro (I think it was) that sounded damn mean. It looked ungly as hell, but sounded like it could eat a Viper cruzing at 15mph. I think I heard a SC spinning as well. Anyone know about this car? I only saw it once when I first moved here, so it might have just been passing through.
William
I know a friend of mine who has a Mustang cobra and I raced him, the car is all stock... It was funny because all my friends thought I would lose but it was funny because I blew him away. He fish-tailed abit but. It's the little mistakes that make u lose. I'm not racing him again because he has a super charger on the way so beware!!
Common... My experiences show that almost every high torque, two wheel drive car will loose at least a second from their track time, when they are on the street. I know that there are those that run almost illegal sticky tires along with some good suspension to launch like the pro's, but they are few and far between.
In the quater mile traction rules!
My personal examples number many higher powered cars losing on the street. You all know about them...the LS1 F-bodies as well as the lesser LT1 versions. Then there are the rabid Mustang guys who go down with and with-out Nitrous. One of my favorites was Chuck's Cobra mustang running 150 shot of Nitrous and 360HP to his wheels, just catching me as or after we crossed the quater mile! He had more HP at his wheels than my engine had at the flywheel!
So don't be worried about HP, just have fun and use that traction!!!
Marcus
awd4kicks
In the quater mile traction rules!
My personal examples number many higher powered cars losing on the street. You all know about them...the LS1 F-bodies as well as the lesser LT1 versions. Then there are the rabid Mustang guys who go down with and with-out Nitrous. One of my favorites was Chuck's Cobra mustang running 150 shot of Nitrous and 360HP to his wheels, just catching me as or after we crossed the quater mile! He had more HP at his wheels than my engine had at the flywheel!
So don't be worried about HP, just have fun and use that traction!!!
Marcus
awd4kicks
Oh BTW - I'm not saying that a DSM can't lose. But there is no reason to go into thinking that you don't have a chance except where it may be painfully obvious or you are at the track where the traction advantage is decreased.
However, I did pound on an 11second Fox body Mustang at the track through the 60ft and almost the 1/8 mile markers before he rushed by at over 100mph!
Marcus
awd4kicks
However, I did pound on an 11second Fox body Mustang at the track through the 60ft and almost the 1/8 mile markers before he rushed by at over 100mph!
Marcus
awd4kicks
It takes skill to drive a 2wd car. Front or rear. You can't have a heavy foot and you need to be able to give as much gas as possible without breaking the tires free to the point of spinning too much. It can be a hard line to find. Even harder when you are lined up to race, cuz you only get once chance to get it right. You're on the spot defending you and your car.
It took forever for me to releard how to drive my FWD Talon after learning how to launch my GVR4. To this day, I will still screw it up.
So, the reason we can take higer HP cars so easy is because the drivers have a heavy foot. Or, they are sporting around with tires that suck. I had the chance to drive a M coupe with the traction control off. Wow. In that car, all you had to do was let the clutch out and mash the gas. The awsome rear tires and BMW design did the rest. I've also driving a Camaro Z28 and a Mustang GT. They are slopy compared to a high end car. They are much harder to control and I always feel uneasy driving them hard. I can never trust them. They just feel so damn slopy. It takes a mastered skill to drive a US V8 car really well. Most street racers do not have this.
Most of the time, you are beating the driver, but maybe not the car. This is what it is about, but at the same time, I read too many stories about stock DSMs beating a 5.0. I know it has been done, but chances are the 5.0 had one crappy driver behind the wheel, or the car was badly tunned. A good running stock DSM shouldn't be able to take down a good running 5.0. Some people call there DSM stock after doing the freeby mods. While, they might be free. It doesn't mean the car is stock. In some cases, it might only take the free mods to beat a 5.0, but the car ain't stock. There are just too many variations to street racing.
This is turning into a rant, but I am getting a little tired about reading about street racing stories. Most of them start from a roll, or don't really show that the other car was intending to race. I try really hard not to street race anymore. Did you know you can loose your licence in this state for street racing? All it takes is getting busted once by the wrong cop once. You're safest bet is a HWY race because the speed limit is already up there. Also, it is much more likly that you will just get busted for speeding as drag racing is a race from a stop at a stop light. Kinda hard to bust you for drag racing on the HWY. Still, if you have a real race lined up with someone worthy, try to at least take it to a back road or something. Don't race in town. It's just silly. Unless there is a Porsche reving at you, it prolly isn't worth it.
Rant over. I guess I am just too old for this stuff anymore.
William
It took forever for me to releard how to drive my FWD Talon after learning how to launch my GVR4. To this day, I will still screw it up.
So, the reason we can take higer HP cars so easy is because the drivers have a heavy foot. Or, they are sporting around with tires that suck. I had the chance to drive a M coupe with the traction control off. Wow. In that car, all you had to do was let the clutch out and mash the gas. The awsome rear tires and BMW design did the rest. I've also driving a Camaro Z28 and a Mustang GT. They are slopy compared to a high end car. They are much harder to control and I always feel uneasy driving them hard. I can never trust them. They just feel so damn slopy. It takes a mastered skill to drive a US V8 car really well. Most street racers do not have this.
Most of the time, you are beating the driver, but maybe not the car. This is what it is about, but at the same time, I read too many stories about stock DSMs beating a 5.0. I know it has been done, but chances are the 5.0 had one crappy driver behind the wheel, or the car was badly tunned. A good running stock DSM shouldn't be able to take down a good running 5.0. Some people call there DSM stock after doing the freeby mods. While, they might be free. It doesn't mean the car is stock. In some cases, it might only take the free mods to beat a 5.0, but the car ain't stock. There are just too many variations to street racing.
This is turning into a rant, but I am getting a little tired about reading about street racing stories. Most of them start from a roll, or don't really show that the other car was intending to race. I try really hard not to street race anymore. Did you know you can loose your licence in this state for street racing? All it takes is getting busted once by the wrong cop once. You're safest bet is a HWY race because the speed limit is already up there. Also, it is much more likly that you will just get busted for speeding as drag racing is a race from a stop at a stop light. Kinda hard to bust you for drag racing on the HWY. Still, if you have a real race lined up with someone worthy, try to at least take it to a back road or something. Don't race in town. It's just silly. Unless there is a Porsche reving at you, it prolly isn't worth it.
Rant over. I guess I am just too old for this stuff anymore.
William
Wow...how did that stem from my feedback?
In a way your right about the drivers and the two wheel drive vehicles. But the chances of finding someone that can make up a 3 car launch defecit on street tires is probably close to 1 in a hundred. Enough HP will make up for it, good tires and suspension will make up for it, but too much HP, greasy tires and an egomaniac driver will almost always go down. :wink:
BTW - I was born and bred V8's and only entered this new and exciting realm about 2.5 years ago. So I understand what your saying about the V8's, but I don't think they need any extra support. I've posted many times about the V8 (I'm unstopable) mentality, and how it makes this end of the sport SO much fun.
As for street racing, you are probably talking to the wrong crowd for the most part. If you come out with us you will notice that there are very few races and they are all done in very remote areas. Almost every DSM owner I know is way more carefull than anyone else on the scene. The dangers are present, and to do something this stupid just for the fun of it you had better be ready for the cosequences.
BTW-Being AWD I always race from a dead stop unless someone wants to decrease my edge, because that's where it is.
I can't speak for everyone, but I'm obviously not taking too kindly to this particular rant. It's your opinion, just remember that's exactly what it is and this is a forum for automotive enthusiasts that happen to get the most enjoyment out of their hobby when we are driving competatively. Shows and cruis-ins are nice, but those all stemmed from the true flesh and bone this sport we call RACING!
Now my rant is over as well.
In a way your right about the drivers and the two wheel drive vehicles. But the chances of finding someone that can make up a 3 car launch defecit on street tires is probably close to 1 in a hundred. Enough HP will make up for it, good tires and suspension will make up for it, but too much HP, greasy tires and an egomaniac driver will almost always go down. :wink:
BTW - I was born and bred V8's and only entered this new and exciting realm about 2.5 years ago. So I understand what your saying about the V8's, but I don't think they need any extra support. I've posted many times about the V8 (I'm unstopable) mentality, and how it makes this end of the sport SO much fun.
As for street racing, you are probably talking to the wrong crowd for the most part. If you come out with us you will notice that there are very few races and they are all done in very remote areas. Almost every DSM owner I know is way more carefull than anyone else on the scene. The dangers are present, and to do something this stupid just for the fun of it you had better be ready for the cosequences.
BTW-Being AWD I always race from a dead stop unless someone wants to decrease my edge, because that's where it is.
I can't speak for everyone, but I'm obviously not taking too kindly to this particular rant. It's your opinion, just remember that's exactly what it is and this is a forum for automotive enthusiasts that happen to get the most enjoyment out of their hobby when we are driving competatively. Shows and cruis-ins are nice, but those all stemmed from the true flesh and bone this sport we call RACING!
Now my rant is over as well.
Just as a side note. I am not the egomaniac that you may be imagining when reading the above post. If you have never met me, I'm a very laid back individual, very warry in iffy situations, yet content and confident enough to hang out with anyone around. My attitude towards mechanics relies heavily on tuning and more anal tuning, then some fun. Money for parts is an occasional gift, while consistant performance gains are made with learned techniques and elbow grease.
It's all good, I don't have big ones, and I'm not an a$$ (Most of the time). But I will stand up for those that think they are underdogs, or oppressed by the attitudes of the multitudes! :shock:
Hahaha...what's that all about!? :roll:
It's all good, I don't have big ones, and I'm not an a$$ (Most of the time). But I will stand up for those that think they are underdogs, or oppressed by the attitudes of the multitudes! :shock:
Hahaha...what's that all about!? :roll:
Where did it all come from? I think I was reading the other forum at the same time and it was really late. I guess was was picking up too many bad vibes from reading that damn DSM vr Mustang chat.
Are you guys planning on meeting this weekend? Hanging out or what not. It's nice to hear that you guys don't race around on the streets too much. I was last a member of Toledo DSM and even tho I knew the much better and they were a blast, they thought they owned the road or something. They were the most wreckless assholes I've ever met They did crazy shit. Once they pretty much did the same thing as in getaway in stockholm, only there was no camera and they did stop for red lights. How they didn't get busted is beyond me. They ran around town for a long time too. I followed them in my Galant, but was not able to run because at the time my MBC was frozen and it unfroze on me spiking my boost way too high. By the time I fixed it they were prolly two miles away. As I drove down the road (most of them had FWD), I saw long black tire marks from every stop bar. It was funny and sad at the same time.
Anyway, I'd like to finnaly meet you guys. Let me know if you are avalible this weekend. I'm going to be out of town next weekend, so this weekend would be great.
William
Are you guys planning on meeting this weekend? Hanging out or what not. It's nice to hear that you guys don't race around on the streets too much. I was last a member of Toledo DSM and even tho I knew the much better and they were a blast, they thought they owned the road or something. They were the most wreckless assholes I've ever met
They did crazy shit. Once they pretty much did the same thing as in getaway in stockholm, only there was no camera and they did stop for red lights. How they didn't get busted is beyond me. They ran around town for a long time too. I followed them in my Galant, but was not able to run because at the time my MBC was frozen and it unfroze on me spiking my boost way too high. By the time I fixed it they were prolly two miles away. As I drove down the road (most of them had FWD), I saw long black tire marks from every stop bar. It was funny and sad at the same time.
Anyway, I'd like to finnaly meet you guys. Let me know if you are avalible this weekend. I'm going to be out of town next weekend, so this weekend would be great.
William
Yeah, come on out William!
There are a lot of those crazy people in this scene, but it seems that the craziest ones drive the crappiest and slowest cars. So little harm is done except to themselves when they get a ticket for being stupid.
A lot of people hang out at Willow on weekend nights. Otherwise known as the Sams Club Parking lot in Peoria. I'll be there after I get my replacement engine in and I'm sure a few other will too. People seem to get there as early as 9 or 10 PM, but they all seem to be the real young ones. Most of us from DSMCentral don't show up until 11-12. For the most part, if you see a DSM there it's one of us.
PM me and I'll get you me cell number if you don't have it already.
Marcus
awd4kicks
There are a lot of those crazy people in this scene, but it seems that the craziest ones drive the crappiest and slowest cars. So little harm is done except to themselves when they get a ticket for being stupid.
A lot of people hang out at Willow on weekend nights. Otherwise known as the Sams Club Parking lot in Peoria. I'll be there after I get my replacement engine in and I'm sure a few other will too. People seem to get there as early as 9 or 10 PM, but they all seem to be the real young ones. Most of us from DSMCentral don't show up until 11-12. For the most part, if you see a DSM there it's one of us.
PM me and I'll get you me cell number if you don't have it already.
Marcus
awd4kicks
Actually you wil lhave to e-mail me at awd4kicks@yahoo.com because I',m not registered on this temporary site.
Marcus
Marcus
I'll try and be there Saturday night. How many plan on showing up?
William
William
"There are a lot of those crazy people in this scene, but it seems that the craziest ones drive the crappiest and slowest cars. So little harm is done except to themselves when they get a ticket for being stupid. "
Well, Marcus, I would go, but I don't want my slow car drivin', Trash talkin', young self to be there and interrupt your good time at the Knolls.
Just jokin', besides it's not worth my time until I get a car worthy. And that's not a knock on any of you.
JBone[/quote]
Well, Marcus, I would go, but I don't want my slow car drivin', Trash talkin', young self to be there and interrupt your good time at the Knolls.
Just jokin', besides it's not worth my time until I get a car worthy. And that's not a knock on any of you.
JBone[/quote]
JBone...you underestimate yourself! Half of the slow cars I'm refering to are not even imports and for that matter thay are in pretty rouph shape. The other half does consist of the Cav's, ZX2's, and the like that must need to have the crap driven out of them to make up for their lack of performance I guess. 8)
Marcus
awd4kicks
Marcus
awd4kicks
I'm not sure what the problem is. I read the whole Mustang vs. DSM post. The Mustang and DSM guys both seemed to be getting along pretty well for the most part and agreeing on most of the points made by both sides.
While I'm usually not one to keep an argument going, lets not forget that 5.0's and early 4.6's came with 225-235 HP from the factory that's only 15-35 more HP than stock DSM's depending on the year. I would have to say, stock-to-stock (even w/o free mods), that in a street race from a stop AWD is more than enough to make up that 15-35 HP. Even a skilled RWD driver has a hard time getting traction on the street with stock tires. On a clean concrete surface it might be a different story, but on your usual run of the mill street AWD will have a distinct traction advantage stock-to-stock. That being said, I have never seen a stock AWD DSM race a stock 5.0 so all of this is just based on what I think, not what I know for sure to be true. It would be interesting to see who would come out on top. I think we'd have a hard time finding a stock 5-speed 5.0 and a stock 5-speed AWD DSM though. :wink:
While I'm usually not one to keep an argument going, lets not forget that 5.0's and early 4.6's came with 225-235 HP from the factory that's only 15-35 more HP than stock DSM's depending on the year. I would have to say, stock-to-stock (even w/o free mods), that in a street race from a stop AWD is more than enough to make up that 15-35 HP. Even a skilled RWD driver has a hard time getting traction on the street with stock tires. On a clean concrete surface it might be a different story, but on your usual run of the mill street AWD will have a distinct traction advantage stock-to-stock. That being said, I have never seen a stock AWD DSM race a stock 5.0 so all of this is just based on what I think, not what I know for sure to be true. It would be interesting to see who would come out on top. I think we'd have a hard time finding a stock 5-speed 5.0 and a stock 5-speed AWD DSM though. :wink:
Ya a AWD can out launch a stock Mustang on street tires. No arguments there, but how car do you think the AWD would stay in front? Not a whole 1/4 mile. If you are talking about a street race from one light to another, then the AWD will have the stang hands down! Thats not what it's all about tho. You gotta be able to beat them on top end too.
One of the most fun I ever had was taking my Talon (with barly any cost in mods) out and taking out a Z28 on top end. I needed FWD to do this. Had it been AWD, it would have been walked on badly. However, it took me till the middle of 3rd to catch up to the Z28 after take off. FWD sucks that bad
It takes alot more for AWD to out pull a v8 on top end.
AWD is fun tho.
I'll never forget the time I beat a TT 300Z from 0-70-75. Only mods where a k&N, MBC, gages, and fuel pump wire upgrade and 15psi. This is on a GVR4 too. I smoked the Z and my clutch comming off the line, however that Z had midnight snacks on my ass all night long. We knew the guy driving and so it was all good We also set up the race on a back road, so it was a drag race. On the HWY, this Z would let me get to about 115 and blow past me like I was standing still. Thinking about it makes me almost want to go buy a TT Z, but it was stock and still hauled ass. Anyway, the point is that AWD might get you out of the box, but that don't mean you are faster at all. Clearly a TT Z is much faster and has much more HP then a barly modded GVR4. However for about 6 or 7 seconds, my car looked really good.
William
One of the most fun I ever had was taking my Talon (with barly any cost in mods) out and taking out a Z28 on top end. I needed FWD to do this. Had it been AWD, it would have been walked on badly. However, it took me till the middle of 3rd to catch up to the Z28 after take off. FWD sucks that bad
It takes alot more for AWD to out pull a v8 on top end.
AWD is fun tho.
I'll never forget the time I beat a TT 300Z from 0-70-75. Only mods where a k&N, MBC, gages, and fuel pump wire upgrade and 15psi. This is on a GVR4 too. I smoked the Z and my clutch comming off the line, however that Z had midnight snacks on my ass all night long. We knew the guy driving and so it was all good
We also set up the race on a back road, so it was a drag race. On the HWY, this Z would let me get to about 115 and blow past me like I was standing still. Thinking about it makes me almost want to go buy a TT Z, but it was stock and still hauled ass. Anyway, the point is that AWD might get you out of the box, but that don't mean you are faster at all. Clearly a TT Z is much faster and has much more HP then a barly modded GVR4. However for about 6 or 7 seconds, my car looked really good.
William
Saw you guys talking about people that can't drive RWD cars and figured you all were talking about me 8)
Some year I'll get around to buying new tires.
How's the engine coming Marcus?
Some year I'll get around to buying new tires.
How's the engine coming Marcus?
The engine swap is comming along nicely Eric! I got everything out last night. Had to pick up some tranny fluid and a water pump gasket this morning. Assuming all goes as well as last night, I will be back on the road later today!
BTW...There is no way that I was talking about you and your T-Type Eric. Buick Turbos rock.
As for a stock AWD DSM not beating a stock Mustang, I'm sorry but I have to continue the argument further. A new stock awd was supposed to run very low 15's on average. I believe a new stock Mustang Fox body was supposed to run about 14.6 on average. Case closed. But how do these stories of unmodded DSM's come around about beating Mustangs?
They get old! Older engines obviously don't have the pull they did right off the show room floor. Take for instance Dan's '93 GSX with very little mods if even free mods, just kicked the crap out of an 87ish Mustang GT automatic like two weeks ago. Sure the Mustang had an automatic, but it sounds good...just doesn't get down the road like it used to. While at the same time I know that Dan's GSX will pull a 14.8 or so on the G-tech. Discount that all you want but the proof is in the race. Some cars are better than average and some are worse.
However, I am completely miffed why you have so little respect for your AWD William. Cars have different abilities from one to the next, even in the same model. When you start modding the variable increase exponentially. Unless your Bill Clinton, defining the exact meaning of a particular word or mod will get you no where. So with that in mind, I raced Joshes FWD at the track (US 41). We both were running similar HP levels, but on that particular run I beat him by about a half second. After studying the run I realized that win was made on the launch. My 60ft time was .5 seconds better than his, and although he pulled just as hard as me and a little more in different areas, he never made up that ground. If it were not for the launch my car would be 1/2 second slower in the quater. Now tell me that is not substantial. No comparison needed, ask anyone if they would like their car to be a half second faster with the same HP?
YEAH baby...AWD rocks! Or at leat the ones I've seen do. I have to see this GVR4 run, maybe theres something wrong with it? :twisted:
Marcus
awd4kicks
BTW...There is no way that I was talking about you and your T-Type Eric. Buick Turbos rock.
As for a stock AWD DSM not beating a stock Mustang, I'm sorry but I have to continue the argument further. A new stock awd was supposed to run very low 15's on average. I believe a new stock Mustang Fox body was supposed to run about 14.6 on average. Case closed. But how do these stories of unmodded DSM's come around about beating Mustangs?
They get old! Older engines obviously don't have the pull they did right off the show room floor. Take for instance Dan's '93 GSX with very little mods if even free mods, just kicked the crap out of an 87ish Mustang GT automatic like two weeks ago. Sure the Mustang had an automatic, but it sounds good...just doesn't get down the road like it used to. While at the same time I know that Dan's GSX will pull a 14.8 or so on the G-tech. Discount that all you want but the proof is in the race. Some cars are better than average and some are worse.
However, I am completely miffed why you have so little respect for your AWD William. Cars have different abilities from one to the next, even in the same model. When you start modding the variable increase exponentially. Unless your Bill Clinton, defining the exact meaning of a particular word or mod will get you no where. So with that in mind, I raced Joshes FWD at the track (US 41). We both were running similar HP levels, but on that particular run I beat him by about a half second. After studying the run I realized that win was made on the launch. My 60ft time was .5 seconds better than his, and although he pulled just as hard as me and a little more in different areas, he never made up that ground. If it were not for the launch my car would be 1/2 second slower in the quater. Now tell me that is not substantial. No comparison needed, ask anyone if they would like their car to be a half second faster with the same HP?
YEAH baby...AWD rocks! Or at leat the ones I've seen do. I have to see this GVR4 run, maybe theres something wrong with it? :twisted:
Marcus
awd4kicks
Oh I know AWD rocks. I own one and I'd never get rid of it any time soon.
I'm just saying AWD has it's limitations, thats all. In stock form, or low level mods, it really shows. I was just tring to point out that even tho AWD kicks ass out of the box, it might not be able to stay ahead of the RWD V8 in the long run.
If you have a 12 second car, it really doesn't matter.
I love AWD in the snow and rain. Hell, I love it on dry roads.
We were talking about stock DSMs and the AWD gets it's 1/4 because of it's take off. For a stock or slightly AWD TEL racing a Mustang, it would be a short race if the AWD didn't get the take off right. Not doging AWD at all, but it does slow us down. Thats all. Once you build the car up and add the HP, then you can take cars down from a roll and still keep pulling.
In comparing with owning a FWD and a AWD, it did take a lot less mods to make the FWD move on top end. If I could only choose one, I would go with the AWD because of it's all over advantage. However there is one place the FWD is a blast and that is on the HWY. Weather I'm racing someone or just tring to get away from a crowd of lemmings, I just have to mash the gas and the thing just keeps going and going. Even with intake mods, MBC, and test pipe, I flew to 135 much faster in the Talon then in the Galant with the same level of mods.
Cars that would spank my FWD in the 1/4 would have trouble tring to get away from me on the HWY. I know when I first raced my Talon at the track, I was beaten by a high 13s Mustang. The thing just took off so much faster then I could, but I was starting to pull by then end of the 1/4. It was just too late at the moment. If we had gone for the 1000meter race, I might have won. Point being, from a roll, FWD really looks good. Anyone stupid enough to race a modded FWD from a roll will prolly get thair ass handed to them. That being the stock V8 crowd.
So, both cars have a advantage. It is just clear that AWD has the overall advantage.
William
I'm just saying AWD has it's limitations, thats all. In stock form, or low level mods, it really shows. I was just tring to point out that even tho AWD kicks ass out of the box, it might not be able to stay ahead of the RWD V8 in the long run.
If you have a 12 second car, it really doesn't matter.
I love AWD in the snow and rain. Hell, I love it on dry roads.
We were talking about stock DSMs and the AWD gets it's 1/4 because of it's take off. For a stock or slightly AWD TEL racing a Mustang, it would be a short race if the AWD didn't get the take off right. Not doging AWD at all, but it does slow us down. Thats all. Once you build the car up and add the HP, then you can take cars down from a roll and still keep pulling.
In comparing with owning a FWD and a AWD, it did take a lot less mods to make the FWD move on top end. If I could only choose one, I would go with the AWD because of it's all over advantage. However there is one place the FWD is a blast and that is on the HWY. Weather I'm racing someone or just tring to get away from a crowd of lemmings, I just have to mash the gas and the thing just keeps going and going. Even with intake mods, MBC, and test pipe, I flew to 135 much faster in the Talon then in the Galant with the same level of mods.
Cars that would spank my FWD in the 1/4 would have trouble tring to get away from me on the HWY. I know when I first raced my Talon at the track, I was beaten by a high 13s Mustang. The thing just took off so much faster then I could, but I was starting to pull by then end of the 1/4. It was just too late at the moment. If we had gone for the 1000meter race, I might have won. Point being, from a roll, FWD really looks good. Anyone stupid enough to race a modded FWD from a roll will prolly get thair ass handed to them. That being the stock V8 crowd.
So, both cars have a advantage. It is just clear that AWD has the overall advantage.
William
Your exaclty right William. We both agree...
BTW-Where were yo last night buddy? I kept looking around for you, but to no avail. Maybe next time.
Marcus
awd4kicks
BTW-Where were yo last night buddy? I kept looking around for you, but to no avail. Maybe next time.
Marcus
awd4kicks
Sorry man. We lost track of time. We were busy at the house.
Also, I was a little worried about the poor talon. Due to the cold weather the boost spiked way too high. No problem, only when I put it back down it was still bogging. It was fine the last time I drove it so hopefully it was just timming being pulled. Thats what it felt like. We must have gotton some really bad knock or something and pissed off the ECU.
Time for a walbro?
William
Also, I was a little worried about the poor talon. Due to the cold weather the boost spiked way too high. No problem, only when I put it back down it was still bogging. It was fine the last time I drove it so hopefully it was just timming being pulled. Thats what it felt like. We must have gotton some really bad knock or something and pissed off the ECU.
Time for a walbro?
William
I have owned all 3 types-AWD, FWD, and RWD. I have raced (on the street)all 3 types and they all have their distinct advantages and disadvantages as most everyone has been saying. Out of all of the vehicles that I have owned I would say that I like my AWD the best with my 79 Monte coming in a close second. As far as who wins when 2 cars line up I believe that the driver is the biggest factor, within reason of course. I have been lucky alot of the times that I have raced and have only been beaten once in my life and that was by Dan I believe at MRC a few months ago. I knew that I had no business racing him and that he would hand me my A$$ because my car is COMPLETELY stock, but I did it anyway hoping that he would miss a shift so that I could keep my streak alive. DAMN YOU!
To try to prove my point here are a couple that I have won that I should have lost big time: my 87 Grand Am with a stock 2.5 against a 3KGT N/A and my 81 Cutlass with a stock 4.3 against a 5.0 Stang.
To try to prove my point here are a couple that I have won that I should have lost big time: my 87 Grand Am with a stock 2.5 against a 3KGT N/A and my 81 Cutlass with a stock 4.3 against a 5.0 Stang.
QUOTE
its good to see that everyone is still around. MRC didnt take off as I wish it would of. WE needto bring it back. Just a few of us who are outfor one common purpose..... not to stand around for 2 hours and circle jerk.
Geez Dan. Racing's fun and everything, you know I'm always up for it, but I think half of the reason everyone meets up is to socialize and talk cars.
QUOTE
Oh I know AWD rocks. I own one and I'd never get rid of it any time soon.
I'm just saying AWD has it's limitations, thats all. In stock form, or low level mods, it really shows. I was just tring to point out that even tho AWD kicks ass out of the box, it might not be able to stay ahead of the RWD V8 in the long run.
If you have a 12 second car, it really doesn't matter.
I love AWD in the snow and rain. Hell, I love it on dry roads.
We were talking about stock DSMs and the AWD gets it's 1/4 because of it's take off. For a stock or slightly AWD TEL racing a Mustang, it would be a short race if the AWD didn't get the take off right. Not doging AWD at all, but it does slow us down. Thats all. Once you build the car up and add the HP, then you can take cars down from a roll and still keep pulling.
In comparing with owning a FWD and a AWD, it did take a lot less mods to make the FWD move on top end. If I could only choose one, I would go with the AWD because of it's all over advantage. However there is one place the FWD is a blast and that is on the HWY. Weather I'm racing someone or just tring to get away from a crowd of lemmings, I just have to mash the gas and the thing just keeps going and going. Even with intake mods, MBC, and test pipe, I flew to 135 much faster in the Talon then in the Galant with the same level of mods.
Cars that would spank my FWD in the 1/4 would have trouble tring to get away from me on the HWY. I know when I first raced my Talon at the track, I was beaten by a high 13s Mustang. The thing just took off so much faster then I could, but I was starting to pull by then end of the 1/4. It was just too late at the moment. If we had gone for the 1000meter race, I might have won. Point being, from a roll, FWD really looks good. Anyone stupid enough to race a modded FWD from a roll will prolly get thair ass handed to them. That being the stock V8 crowd.
So, both cars have a advantage. It is just clear that AWD has the overall advantage.
William
I'm just saying AWD has it's limitations, thats all. In stock form, or low level mods, it really shows. I was just tring to point out that even tho AWD kicks ass out of the box, it might not be able to stay ahead of the RWD V8 in the long run.
If you have a 12 second car, it really doesn't matter.
I love AWD in the snow and rain. Hell, I love it on dry roads.
We were talking about stock DSMs and the AWD gets it's 1/4 because of it's take off. For a stock or slightly AWD TEL racing a Mustang, it would be a short race if the AWD didn't get the take off right. Not doging AWD at all, but it does slow us down. Thats all. Once you build the car up and add the HP, then you can take cars down from a roll and still keep pulling.
In comparing with owning a FWD and a AWD, it did take a lot less mods to make the FWD move on top end. If I could only choose one, I would go with the AWD because of it's all over advantage. However there is one place the FWD is a blast and that is on the HWY. Weather I'm racing someone or just tring to get away from a crowd of lemmings, I just have to mash the gas and the thing just keeps going and going. Even with intake mods, MBC, and test pipe, I flew to 135 much faster in the Talon then in the Galant with the same level of mods.
Cars that would spank my FWD in the 1/4 would have trouble tring to get away from me on the HWY. I know when I first raced my Talon at the track, I was beaten by a high 13s Mustang. The thing just took off so much faster then I could, but I was starting to pull by then end of the 1/4. It was just too late at the moment. If we had gone for the 1000meter race, I might have won. Point being, from a roll, FWD really looks good. Anyone stupid enough to race a modded FWD from a roll will prolly get thair ass handed to them. That being the stock V8 crowd.
So, both cars have a advantage. It is just clear that AWD has the overall advantage.
William
I used to completely agree with you here William. In fact, it used to be my claim to fame as one of the few FWD drivers on here. But recent events have changed my mind.
I now own an AWD. I recently raced Josh's FWD with it from a roll. Our mods are almost exactly the same...16G, full 3" exhaust, and so on. Except, he was running about 4 psi more boost than me and he has a big ole' FMIC. I pulled on him from a 15 mph roll all the way through 4th gear until I had about 2-3 cars on him. I also recently raced a turbocharged Integra from a 50 mph roll. We all know how light those cars are. Marcus was with me when I pulled 2 to 3 cars on this Integra from a 50 mph roll and he even gave himself a little head start. In both of these races the AWD traction advantage was taken out of the equation, and my Tsi still performed beyond my expectations.
Now stock to stock, AWD may have some serious disadvantages at the top end. But once you start modding them, it seems the drivetrain losses become negligible. I'm only speaking from my driving experiences with modded FWD and AWD DSM's here. Theory can't hold a candle to fact. And what's better experimentation than 'spirited driving'!
Josh needs to log his car for knock or timming problems. This is kinda part of the problem talking about older cars. Also, we all know that some TELs are tight and some are not.
I raced a friend of mine after we just installed a 16G, EVO manny, and a ported 2G O2 housing on his car. This was on a 93 AWD auto. We thought for sure that the car would pull hard after viewing that 13b auto crap on the car. Aside from the turbo upgrade my friend had a full 3" exhaust and supporting mods. MBC, ext.
We both ran 15psi. I spanked his ass in my Talon FWD from a roll. I have a stock 14b 5 speed unported, untouched. Stock exhaust with a test pipe and magnaflow muffler. It might have been a closer race, but I know my custom IC gave the edge to pull on the car. However, my car is a very high milage car too and I was racing a 93 with a new motor in it, so take it as you will. Some TELs run like champs while others suffer. This has been a long know fact now. In this case, I knew that the 93 auto had knock problems. We think due to the tranny, but that car is long gone. It had a new engine and knock sensor and it was still cursed.
A good running FWD will always take a AWD (on top end speed) when they are truly the same level carand running the same. Also, since driver is such a huge factor, I'll say with the same level driver.
AWD is still better tho
William
I raced a friend of mine after we just installed a 16G, EVO manny, and a ported 2G O2 housing on his car. This was on a 93 AWD auto. We thought for sure that the car would pull hard after viewing that 13b auto crap on the car. Aside from the turbo upgrade my friend had a full 3" exhaust and supporting mods. MBC, ext.
We both ran 15psi. I spanked his ass in my Talon FWD from a roll. I have a stock 14b 5 speed unported, untouched. Stock exhaust with a test pipe and magnaflow muffler. It might have been a closer race, but I know my custom IC gave the edge to pull on the car. However, my car is a very high milage car too and I was racing a 93 with a new motor in it, so take it as you will. Some TELs run like champs while others suffer. This has been a long know fact now. In this case, I knew that the 93 auto had knock problems. We think due to the tranny, but that car is long gone. It had a new engine and knock sensor and it was still cursed.
A good running FWD will always take a AWD (on top end speed) when they are truly the same level carand running the same. Also, since driver is such a huge factor, I'll say with the same level driver.
AWD is still better tho
William
I agree that cars definitely vary in performance even straight out of the factory. My FWD is definitely a 'Wednesday car' (everybody knows fast cars are built on Wednesdays ).
Funny that you mention logging Josh's car though. Because that is exactly the reason I was out at his place. We tuned out most of his knock until he was seeing 17-18 deg. of timing throughout. There is no doubt it was running strong. He's the more experienced driver too, though when racing in a straight line from a roll I don't think much driving skill is required. I went all the way to 110 mph still pulling on him. Now maybe if we had shifted to 5th and gone to 140 he would have started reeling me in. I have too often heard that all things being equal a FWD will pull on an AWD from a roll. Well in this instance all things were not equal. Josh's FWD had mods on me and I still pulled on him from a roll. Hence my reasoning that drivetrain loss becomes negligible once an AWD DSM starts getting modded.
If you think about it, it makes sense. As you start modding a car you don't lose more horsepower due to drivetrain loss in proportion to the HP that you add. That would mean that though it took say 40 HP of drivetrain loss on a 200 HP AWD to get the tires moving on a stock car (assuming 20% drivetrain loss), it now takes 80 HP of drivetrain loss on a modded 400 HP AWD. I can't believe that drivetrain loss would increase linearly with HP. It doesn't make sense. I think the percentage of drivetrain loss decreases as you start modding a car. I think it remains a fixed number of 40 HP or maybe increases a little bit due to increased heat dissipation due to more power moving through the flywheel and drivetrain. So, accordingly, the 400 HP car would have say 10-11% drivetrain loss now.
Let do the same thing with a FWD car assuming 10% drivetrain loss. 200 HP * 0.1 = 20 HP drivetrain loss. With my reasoning the 400 HP FWD should still be seeing only about 20 HP or slightly more of drivetrain loss at 400 HP. That translates to about 5-6% drivetrain loss. So now on two equally powerful modded AWD and FWD the drivetrain loss differs between the two by 5% rather than 10%. This difference will continue to shrink as both cars increase in HP.
).
Funny that you mention logging Josh's car though. Because that is exactly the reason I was out at his place. We tuned out most of his knock until he was seeing 17-18 deg. of timing throughout. There is no doubt it was running strong. He's the more experienced driver too, though when racing in a straight line from a roll I don't think much driving skill is required. I went all the way to 110 mph still pulling on him. Now maybe if we had shifted to 5th and gone to 140 he would have started reeling me in. I have too often heard that all things being equal a FWD will pull on an AWD from a roll. Well in this instance all things were not equal. Josh's FWD had mods on me and I still pulled on him from a roll. Hence my reasoning that drivetrain loss becomes negligible once an AWD DSM starts getting modded.
If you think about it, it makes sense. As you start modding a car you don't lose more horsepower due to drivetrain loss in proportion to the HP that you add. That would mean that though it took say 40 HP of drivetrain loss on a 200 HP AWD to get the tires moving on a stock car (assuming 20% drivetrain loss), it now takes 80 HP of drivetrain loss on a modded 400 HP AWD. I can't believe that drivetrain loss would increase linearly with HP. It doesn't make sense. I think the percentage of drivetrain loss decreases as you start modding a car. I think it remains a fixed number of 40 HP or maybe increases a little bit due to increased heat dissipation due to more power moving through the flywheel and drivetrain. So, accordingly, the 400 HP car would have say 10-11% drivetrain loss now.
Let do the same thing with a FWD car assuming 10% drivetrain loss. 200 HP * 0.1 = 20 HP drivetrain loss. With my reasoning the 400 HP FWD should still be seeing only about 20 HP or slightly more of drivetrain loss at 400 HP. That translates to about 5-6% drivetrain loss. So now on two equally powerful modded AWD and FWD the drivetrain loss differs between the two by 5% rather than 10%. This difference will continue to shrink as both cars increase in HP.
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