One of my friends always rags on Turbos. Hes pretty mucha little rich kids and thinks "V-tec for life MAING" So I told him V-tec is crap and he wanted to make a wager on it. When his brotehr gets done with a Integra GS-R (w/ v-tec) With all bolt-ons + port polish, the works, he wants to race any "turbo car" that I got. I asked if a friend could do it instead with one of their cars, and he said it doesn't matter because he'll still win. HE said it has to be streetable though(so no, "all out drag cars") He said he would put a grand down saying his bro woudl win.

Someone on here HAS to have a fast DSM. Obviously I wouldn't race for a grand either, unless I was running 9's or soemthing. but even for like a hundred or two, anyone wanna give this a chance. It will be at a track so there will be no BS. I know he'd back down if someone just offered to race him. I jsut thought it was funny how "turbos aren't sh!t, V-tec owns" How fast would a GS-R full out even be? Thsi woudl be N/A also.

Well in the NDRA street class (streetable) there are NA GS-R powered Civic's running 11.0 and will be 10's by the end of the year. There is already a NA H22 running 10.9's in that class. Better know what's done first.

Solid point, Mike. However, the more likely scenario is that the car will run high-mid 14s. High 13s at best, if it a daily driver. On the other hand it could be a well built drag car running in the 10s. If that is the case, and he won't race any "race cars," he's a loser. Bottom line is that if you own a VTEC H o n d a, you have no reason to disrespect turbo cars, nor do you have cause to deny the tractability of the typical turbo powerband. Lastly, I doubt even your rich little friend has $1k to throw around on a whim. Tell him to shut up, stop bench racing, actually get the car running or built or whatever it is HIS BROTHER is doing, and run the car at the track. And by the way, I'll race him. V-Day is this Sunday. Oh wait, the theoretical NA monster does not currently exist. My bad.

With threat of this releasing who he is, ill still say it. His borther had a full custom Civic, with everything on it. It had over $27,000 into the engine, and he was about to sink another $5,000 into the interior when he flipped it (doing stupid stuff ont he street). They DO have the money. He owns 1 shop, and co-owns a shop with a buddy of his in tenn. They are capable of doing this. YES, it is a street car, not a drag, if it was drag, i'd tell him to go up agasinst shep . And yes, I saw his old civic in person. Never saw anything with the engine, so he could be BSing me there. He told me after $27,000 they got a wopping 300hp out of it... .

But then he said they were getting a skyline, then he said he was getting just the SR20DET, and now its back to the "Vtec Civic".

He (the actual kid, not his bro) just purchased a civic hatchback, and will be modding that soon. Once he gets that little thing all "fast" (he told me its fast stock ) I'm sure one of you will be more than happy enough to race him. I'll keep you updated. But the rule is, if you race him for money, i get 25% because i told you about it.

Useing big words to confuse me?

Btw its monetary .

But what do you meen? The guy is rich.

lots of Big numbers...except his HP rating.


ooo snap.

300 whp NA GSR for only $27K. LOL. I'd love to see proof of this. I'd be suprised if they were over 250. Sounds like one of those kids that likes to make up stuff to look cool.

Spy - A 300 whp NA FWD that other car that we shall not name will spank a 300 whp Turbo FWD DSM or that other car that we shall not name as far as traction. I pulled a 1.99 60 ft on Falken tires at 210 whp. Its all in the tq. NA has less. Turbo + FWD = Tire spin.

BTW... The NDRA Comp 4 (all motor street class) rules say there must be a dash, carpet, door panels, NO 1pc front end, etc, so its not a all out drag race car. These can very easily be driven on the street. Those times are on slicks too.

I"ll race the focker with analube.

I gots 300hp for... Lets see, 500 (engine) + 200 (s-afc2) + 92 (exhaust) + 20 (uicp) + 0 (free mods) + 100 (Walbro GSS342) + 30 (mbc)

I think I now have a whopping $942. If I include the car itself, we're talking about $3,042. This is why I leave my H O N D A alone, and mod the DSM.

sweet, let's git-r-done. Stage Akina Hill Climb, time 10pm, weather dry.

It's not looking good right now, but the luber might be at vday and I might decide to race if so. If not, we'll have to find a private track on the highway somewhere's out of the jurisdiction of ..... well, out of sight.

What is your point? If I wanted I could take a CRX ($500), Z6 engine ($500), turbo kit ($1000), MBC ($50), free mods ($0), and have less whp and STILL run faster than you for only $2050!

Its not about building the fastest car for the cheapest amount. Its about doing what you want. I'm not into all-motor to be the fastest around here. I'm doing it because i LIKE all-motor. Some people just don't understand.

I can certainly respect the route you've chosen to go with your car and I'm not detracting from the accomplishment there. BUT, for a lot of us, it IS about building the fastest car for the cheapest amount.

Bottom line, most DSMers want to go faster. Most of us have limited funds (to a greater or lesser extent). Put those two facts together and going faster for less is an important factor for most of us. Hence the use of Home Depot, free mods, and extensive DIY you'll see all over the board.

IMHO, it's part of what makes the whole DSM thing great. Fewer of us are all about slapping on some HKS parts and paying big dollars if we can build it ourselves or make it happen cheaply and effectively.

Heck, where else could Buschur Racing be a name brand with more credibility than Apexi or Greddy but in the DSM world?

Oh, and of course we don't understand your all motor kick. In case you didn't check, you're on a forum of turbo-worshippers.

Overall, it makes perfect sense to me (the standpoint most of us put out there). I'm not trying to make you feel unwelcome or anything as you add a unique viewpoint, but personally I think JMoushon is pretty much right on the mark.

As to the cheap CRX build-up, I have to say I question it a bit. I'd think I'd be seeing a lot more of them out there if it was that easy. I can think of one locally that although quick is definately not up to even a solid 14B powered car's par.

Just my $0.02

There was a challenge on Tuners, and a guy broke 11's with only $2000 to spend(this includes the price of the car itself).

I agree that a 1st Gen DSM is a GREAT performance for the $ machine. I do like them. I just give you guys a hard time for fun.

On the CRX note...there might not be a lot out there because people don't know the right things to do and the best places to get parts from. Most Honduh owners buy brand names and don't realize that Civic's are NOT fast just by adding a APC muffler and an intake. The smart Honduh owner could build a 1.6 sohc turbo CRX for cheap and make it go at the track. A CRX from the factory only weighs 1800 lbs. A little weight reduction, stiff rear springs and shocks, traction bar, and good tires and it will scoot.

There is a turbo sohc CRX that will be at V-Day. His setup is VERY simple and has DSM parts. We'll see how he does.

For the record, and to back up part of what Travis and Mike have said... It IS all about what you want, or the route you want to take. In my world, I want to go fast for as little $$ as possible. Bottom line. If I was interested in looking good or spending money, I would not pilot a DSM. I too (sorry Mike) doubt the $2k CRX running in the low 13s/high 12s. Adam from Collision Revision has gone a best of 13.5, and that is a 14b CRX, with a B16. Cheap, effective, but far from stomping any DSM with a similar amount of investment. The point here is the "not a race car" thing. Mike, your car is a race car. I've seen it on public highways once in my life. Dan and Kris have street cars. They get miles put on them everyday. My car is far from a race car, it still has a full interior and is my only mode of daily transportation. I have a lot of respect for the SOHC Honduhs, especially when built right, but please practice what you preach and don't speculate on what you COULD do. Instead, have a comparable full weight, $3000 total investment that other car that we shall not name that has a/c and an interior come to V-Day and beat me. That's all I care about, because as I stated, all I care about is going fast for cheap. Much love, Mike.

I drove my car quite a bit last year. I haven't driven it since last Nov and when I did, it was more of a street car than Kris' car I can tell you that.

Throw me $2000 cash and I'll build up my CRX and race you and put $100 on it.

When it comes to building a car for little money, sometimes its all about who you know and what you can get for cheap or free. You wouldn't believe me if I told you the amount of absolute top of the line cutting edge stuff I'm getting for my new motor for free.

no personal offense here masterhonduhbuilder-

but man, i get sick of the ultimate bench racing... 'oh yeah, well if you gave x amount of dollars, i'd build x car with x mods and then race you in the car you paid for for x amount of dollars.'

run what you brung

and run your mouth about what your a.s.s. sits in.

once again no personal offense there masterhonduhbuilder.

Well the discussion all started about a some kid saying his honduh was bad pooper and we got into what it would really run and then went off topic about the classic dsm + little money = fast. I said I agreed they take little money to make fast. I was just saying you can make a honduh fast for little money too. He doubted me and I said give me the money and I'll prove you wrong. I'm not going to spend my own money on my POS CRX just to prove a point.

If I buy a 9 second street turbo that other car that we shall not name for $250 does that mean I win? I just think the whole performance vs money thing is something domestic guys bring up to try and make fun of imports and its lame.

Oh, and it was already broughten last year. I just took a year off to let you guys catch up... LOL J/K!

thats my point

like i said it was nothig personal r.a.n.nt.a just a pet peeve. as well as the people who always post up the 'give me something for free' shat.

i heard spy eats skinny little boys and sh.its them out as weak little hond.as

EXACTLY

So in other words, I bet i could build up a faster Geo for $1 than you. Because i could just get all the parts for free (there is a 9 sec Geo on CII(vid)), then put in $1 worth of gas.

I can see why bench racing is so gay.

If you buy a 9 second h car for 250, then yes, Mike, you would win. Also note that I do indeed like and respect H cars, and happen to own one. I also have had a secret crush on you for months. But anyway... In regards to the excuses made by domestic owners, I'd like them to show me 100+ whp for around $800, without the bottle. I love the bottle, but I'm talking about no-limit useability. I don't know enough about domestics to know if this is possible, but I kinda doubt it.

Also, although the fact that no one is going to give you 2000 to build your car is relatively mute, it should be mentioned that you said 2050, including the car.

And if you're taking a year off to let us catch up, why is it that there are a few of us almost a full second ahead of you and you still aren't running?

Ahh, Mr. Moushon, careful here. The Buick is up more than 200hp at the crank from stock for a $400 used turbo, a $200 used exhaust, a $200 set of used injectors, and a $100 fuel pump.

My apologies for the omission of the Turbo Buicks. I can honestly say that I place those cars in a class of their own, however. Those cars are amazing, it's like a big displacement DSM in the way that the 3.8T responds to mods. For the record, I was generally referring to primarily the 5.0/LT1/LS1 crowd. After doing some research, I found that the 5.3 Chevy truck engine can get 70 whp from a cam and 1.6 rockers. Too bad it's in a truck. I wonder what a cam makes in an LS1?

Same here. Its a personal pet peeve when people go around saying it takes $50K to make a import, particularly a that other car that we shall not name, fast. Most of the time the car that they have, they bought already modded so they think they can use that amount as how much has put into it. Thats why I made the $250 9 sec that other car that we shall not name joke.

Everyone build what they want for reasons that they want. If you spend $5K or $50K and run the same time, who cares, as long as you're having fun doing what you're doing.

Can I get an AMEN?

AAAAAAAAAAAMENNNNNNNNNN!!!!!

I feel like a skinny, white Al Sharpton!