I am now in need of a motor for my 96 talon. So I have been doing some searching on the net.
I found one on GatewayDSM, JDM for $700.00.
Or go this route of rebuild rebuilt motor
If anyone has a better or cheaper way, I am open to opinions.

I would definately stay away from the rebuilder in the Ebay ad! The warranty sucks and there's alot of "replaced at our discretion" in the ad. Also look at the pictures, and you'll see the head isn't even cleaned up! Exhaust ports are still carbon coated! Look for a rebuilder that is AERA certified and with a better warranty. Most are a full 12 months..

You could rebuild it yourself! There's a few good machine shops around here, and parts are readily available. Plenty of knowledge from this site for assembly! (Precision Engines) Then you know exactly what you have!

BUT that all depends on your budget... What are you wanting to spend?

Just my .02..

At the most I would like to spend $2000.00! Yes 2 grand!

I would really like this one from FFWD Connections. But I'm pretty sure money is an object there.

This purple people eater 2.0 is outfitted with Wisecos and Eagles. Stepping up to the plate, it features the Butcher and Oringed block as well as a Level 3.5 head. Throw in some HKSs, adjustables, our custom fuel rail with SX FPR, and a sheet metal intake, and you're ready to possibly get yourself thrown in jail for wreckless endangerment. This motor is currently putting out 580 to the wheels, asking for more, and plum lethal. Done up in one of our most popular colors, "Violent Violet". Grab the cuffs.

What about this?
Stroker kit!

as obvious as this may sound, motors' don't determine hp on our cars, the turbos do. only buy a motor that is commensurate with your turbo selection. no reason the stock internals won't hold past 400 whp. if you're looking for more than that, go for rods/pistons but leave the proprietary head porting services and motors with lots of fancy nicknames and slogans to the suckers.

having said that, I've got a 144 Heavy Industries stage 7.38 DOHC 1.998L masturbatory monster masher motor that I'll let go for the amazing price of $2348.38 which is a steal at 60% off retail. Sorry, no flow benching done on the head and I won't realease any specs or internals as that's all top-secret in-house fabrication insider knowledge shop stuff. but it's got a rainbow painted valve cover for gay pride because to be ignorant enough to pay out for something that questionable, you've got to like to get pumped up the anal canal.

Come on miami you couldn't take it easy on me, LOL?

ah, I'm not giving you a hard time really. just playing around.

Karking.com sells some decent 4G63's. The guy that rebuilds them has done it quite a bit. I think you can get a 6 bolt for about 1500. But its all stock.

I've got a good 6 bolt shortblock and a head with bent valves I'll let go for 250 if you're wanting to go the rebuild route. PM me if you're interested, but keep in mind that you'll have to drive over and pick it up yourself.

Rebuild it yourself... that way you know what's in it for sure and you know it was put together right. Look on mach v for thier topline kit... I think it's around $500, add another few hundred for machine work and you're set.

thats the same route I was going to go, but Im going to wait until I blow it up first. I was going to order the kit that comes with the .20 over bore pistons. The maching shop is going to polish my crank, bore and hone my block and dip it it acid to givve it a good bath. I think there were going to charge around 400.

Like Miami said, if you know you'll never reach 400hp, then there's no reason you should go with anything more than a standard rebuild minus balance shafts, the 4-layer Mitsu headgasket, and ARP head studs. Buschur has proven the stock engine to go 400hp, and 450hp with shot-peened rods. I plan on going this route and trying to run right at the 400hp level for as long as the engine will hold up. To put it into perspective, 400hp is enough to wip just about every street legal car you will see. GTOs, stock Vettes, the like...

So........... how do I make 600 whp?

Would a T61 turbo help?

You need to decide what the hell is going to happen with you and your car, buddy!! If you keep jumping all over the place, we can't help you. Set your goals (make them reasonable and acheiveable for now), and get a good baseline engine going. You can always add some forged internals later if you want. I would say 600whp is a bit much to shoot for from the get-go.

I'm with Rob on rebuilding the thing yourself. You'll gain so much knowledge about the engine and what parts may be prone to failure, plus the knowledge that the motor was done correctly. If you need it, I have a fully assembled, ready to go head with cams in need of a good home. PM me if you want it.

Well I won't learn nothin if I don't ask. That's like th turbo thing, Hell I don't know what to buy.
I have owned a DSM for 6 yrs now. And only the last year and a half have I been doing mods and learning about upgrades. I have had the intentions on putting this car back to a 600 whp motor that it once had.
But I guess I have to start some where!

You want to know what I want?
This is it I want to know what the biggst turbo I can put on a .020 rebuild kit? I have a intercooler picked out by Victory Performance front-mount kit for 2G. So I'm guessing you know what I want now. I am also going to get some injectors in the 650cc range. I am talking to a guy about a megasquirt system!
So that should give you a good idea of what I want?

Anybody can start thowing out hp numbers... I've love to build the vr-4 to 600hp, but the amout of modifications to do that are astrinomical. Instead of saying you want XXX hp, I'd suggest that you pick a decent turbo in your price range, figure out what you think you'll need to run that setup, put it together, tune it, and see where you end up. It's a process of trial and error... figure out what's holding you back, and upgrade it. I think one of the wost things you can do to a car is throw a bunch of mods to it at the same time... when it doesn't work, you have no idea where to start!!

Ok, I'm sorry I guess I am going in to this with my head in my back side.

Let's start here.
How big a turbo is the T61? I found one for 375 and that's in my price range.

I updated my garage for all to see. That way you can help me a little more I hope.

Im not no pro but I would just rebuild it to stock specs and tune it. Get it running as close to perfect as you can and then start doing mods. Like said before, the stock motors are very well capable of produceing and handling enough power for us non-pro drag racers. If it was me Id get it running good then do the necessary mods to whoop up on some v8s on the streets of central Illinois. I dont know if your very famaliar with the "River" scene in pekin, but all summer long there are tons of big headed muscle car guys that talk trash about our cars and among alot of others, I would love to beat some of them.
Last summer Asiankid91 was giving a bunch of them a good run and some of them were very surprised. This year our goals here in central illinois are to make their jaws drop. I know it will take hours of tuning and shit tons of money but that is what makes this hobby fun and exciting.
So I guess my opinion to you is to just get that beeeotch running.

Thanks,
Travis

P.S. Both of mine are still not perfect but getting really close:)

OK, so I have decided to rebuild it to the stock setup.
It is almost like everything I think of to ask about, or how to do I get shut down. So I will rebuild it to stock and run this 14b. I don't want to sound like a stick in the mud. I don't know what else to say.

Trey, you're building a car to impress people in Pekin at the river??? Please say you're joking.

Bud, you're wanting to run a 60-trim turbo on 650's? and expect us to figure your HP goals by your choice of FMIC manufacturer? You're not really giving us a lot to go off of here.

Selecting a turbo because that's what is available within your budget at the moment is a recipe for disaster as well. If there is one thing you should never ever ever cheap out on, it's the turbo. (though you shouldn't cheap out on anything for that matter). To give you an idea, I paid 2K for my turbo and the extra stuff (ext. wastegate, lines, 02 housing, etc.) to get it to fit properly on the car. Sure it was a big expenditure and took a lot of thought, but I've never regretted it. I'm not saying a 500 evo3 16g is a bad decision because it's relatively affordable, but the price should be reflective of the frame of the turbo to some extent, keep that in mind.

If it seems like we're giving you a hard time here it's because you're asking a very difficult question and it's one that, as circular as it sounds, only you can really answer. You've got to do the research, find out exactly how much money it takes to properly reach the goals you're tossing out like secondhand news, decide if that's what you're prepared to sacrifice for a hobby, and finally put together your own build sheet based on your tolerance for streetability - hp goals - budget total - reliability and maintenance requirements. I can't tell you your own tolerance for things like streetability or budget expenses any more than I can tell you if you prefer B, C, or D cups.

D's definatly!

I understand what your saying Kris, I am done asking stupid questions until I get a game plan going.

I am just going to rebuild the motor for now.

no, it's definately not a stupid question, the problem is that it's too difficult for us to hope to answer for you. furthermore, you're right for asking yourself this now, before you arrange for modifications that aren't in line with your end goals, whatever they may be.

again, take some time, do a lot of research online and plan, plan, plan. remember the old saying measure twice and cut once? well, let's apply it here, but say 'plan and revise the plan untill you've exhausted your possibilities, and then execute once'.

This is the front mount that I want to buy.
MachV

Im not just building it to beat people in Pekin I just wanna get some revenge.

As Miami said, Bud, I meant nothing critical by my earlier comment. We just need a game plan on your part to help. And to clarify, a game plan isn't "this is the front mount I want to buy". How do you know that's what you want? Will it work with the setup you intend for your future? Performance engine parts aren't giant bandaids or one size fits all panty hose.

Sit down, and decide what size (not by brand or anything, just relative to stock flow) turbo you want, what you intend to do with the car (9sec dragster, road course, ect.), and how much money is right for you. This won't happen in an hour. It should take days and weeks of researching available options, flow charts, and specs to compile a database of useable info. Once that is done, you can say "I have such and such for goals and this is what my end result needs to be. What's the best option for acheiving premium fuel management? Best spark? Cooler intake charge with lowest pressure drop?"

Then, we can really shine for you and give some specific details. Your enthusiasm is awesome, so don't lose it. But for now it needs to be directed at information farming so you can make an educated decision about your goals. It's a lot of work, and that's why most folks don't want to do it for you. Decide what you want the car to be, and what you want your performance level to be, and we'll go from there.

ex: I'm trying to turn my 91 AWD into a 9sec class dragster. Is abc turbo and xyz intercooler capable of achieving that with supporting mods?

Good luck to you, buddy!!

miami and goat put it a lot better than I ever could have!

I think your #1 priority is getting that motor running. Basically, build it the best you can with what you have available. If all you can afford is a quality stock rebuild, so be it. If you've got some left for forged pistons and rods, don't let any of us stop you. Just don't cheap out on some things (head gasket, arp head bolts, for example) so you can put forged internals in it.

So can I use the arp studs thatare already in it?

Given what you've said about your budget, give this a go.

Rebuild the stock motor($1500-$2000 for a good rebuild)
Get a good feel for tuning using what you currently have.
Then get yourself some injectors. Tune some more
Next an intercooler and piping.
Last a turbo. A stock motor will put up with a lot. Even more if you opt for forged pistons when you rebuild.

If you are wanting a 10 second car, good luck with that. If you are making a 12.0 car that can be run reliably on the street, then that is a good goal for your price range.

That has been my goal low 13's - 12's!
And that is what I have been leaving out this whole time. Sorry to everyone for the confusion that I have caused. That is exactly what I have been looking for ncgalant.
What do I have to get motor wise, as in rebuild parts?

You're looking for 300-325 horse then. Easy to do on a stock motor.

rod bearings
main bearings
piston rings
headgasket
exhaust mani. gasket
intake mani gasket
RTV for the oil pan
valve cover gasket
timing belt
timing belt tensioner
and a new rear main seal wouldn't hurt either

That's all I can think of at the moment. There are plenty of places on the intraweb that sell complete kits, it's just a matter of what brand you want to go with.

Bud
Look at my mods, you've seen my car...I'm running low 13's with a stock motor, stock 14b and SMIC and 450's. It's a 1G vs your 2G but my point is you shouldn't need a lot of exotic stuff to run that goal.

Thanks man I will do that.

Just don't forget to add at least 10 product stickers, a huge wing, and, of course, some NAAAAAAWWWWWWSSSSS!!!!!

I think you'll be pleasantly suprised with what you can do on a relatively stock setup. Let us know what you end up doing.

So..... Should i even worry about hooking up the SAFC? And can I reuse the arp studs that I have in the motor already?

Hook up the SAFC. SAFC + AFPR = good tuning on injectors 750cc or less(on pump gas). Add an eprom ECU with a better base setup and the sky's the limit. I'm pretty sure ARPs are reusable, but don't take my word for that. I've heard it, but never used them.

ARP's are reusable.

As mentioned, definitely hook up the safc. Good fuel management is a must for proper tuning. Just know that you prolly won't need something as advanced as a standalone ECU to achieve your goals. black92's got a good idea with the combo eprom/ safc, too.

I was going to buy a DSM Link to eliminate me haveing to buy 2 loggers. Is this a good idea?