I decided to start a new thread for this year.

My goals this year:
1) To run at least 6 of the Quartermaster Series bracket races this year at Cordova and place somewhere in the points.
2) Try to get in the 11's (I'll take a 11.999) on the 14B with a relatively full weight car. ie. NO gutting the car.

I decided to take a little more scientific plan to it this year and examine what's possible and plan around that.

All calculation done at 3200lb car weight (est) and using the web site: HP Estimator

HP required to run my best 1/4 mile of 12.65@108 is 312 at the wheels so that's my base.
HP estimated to run a 11.90 is 375

So I need to pick up 63 HP to run a solid 11...hmmmm that seems to be alot to expect on a 14B.

Looking at my best 1/8 mile time of 7.92@88.5 (that I got at Vicary Day after the accident that shut down 1/4 mile racing), that equates to a 12.43 @112.39 using 1/8 mile converter, That HP requirement is 329. That leaves me about 46 HP short....

Leaves me to wonder, do these numbers seem feasable? 312(329) wheel HP with a 14B? Is 375 possible??

I think that leaves me two choices, cams or selective weight decrease involving nothing that involves gutting the car like the AC system.

I assume you want to use 93 octane? I think some race gas and a good tune could get you to your goal.

I'd shoot for the goal of keeping her full weight and running an 11 on the 14b. I don't think many AWD owners can claim a 11 second run with a full weight 14b car.

I'm in agreement with Rob. Some race gas and a good tune will go a long way. Also anything you can do to cool that intake charge (water/alcohol injection, larger intercooler, moving the intake filter where the old sidemount IC was). I'm not too sure on the cams. Most cams are designed to increase your airflow and power in the mid to upper RPM ranges. As we know the 14b can start choking at the upper RPM ranges. I'd be looking to get as much power as you can down low and in the middle. I think the stock cams should do that for you just fine.

Another thing that you can do is some mods to help you launch quicker. I'm not sure what you already have, but a stutter box helps here as well as a center diff spool to lock your center diff. Of course sticky tires and a stiffer but compliant suspension will help as well.

I like the idea to go deaper into the well of 14b power supply. I also like the idea of you being more scientific with the upgrades/tuning. I know you are already running race fuel some dyno time with the race fuel and an EPROM burner would be a great start.

Cams are a possibility...I feel that 40hp out of the rigth cams is plausible.

Bucci is running 3" Intercooler pipes!!!
I'm not sure what he is running for an intercooler, but if it has 3" outlets I'm guessing a front mount. This may help as hot as a 14b makes the compressed air above it's efficiency limit.

Weight is a major factor of speed for these other 14b guys. I'm with you on trying to keep the car nice and going fast, it's just going to take more work with that added weight.

You can do IT!

Kicks is right, I'm already running race gas. I only race on the strip and don't mind running raace gas, except for the added expence. I'm currently tuning with the Maft Translator and a AEM wideband. O2's are good with minimal knock.

I do have a EPROM sitting in the garage. Setup with a 6000 stutter. I need to get a new chip burnt with a lower stutter rpm. I usally launch at 5200, anybody with stutterbox experience recommend a good starting point?

I've been considering DSMLink, but the price is steep. I would dyno tune it if there was somewhere local with a AWD dyno. I think R&T's is looking into getting one.

Intake temps are usally pretty good with the headlight removed and one of my headlights ducts in place (have some for sale-shameless plug ) I've been trying to figure out a way to make an airbox to isolate the aircleaner, but the 2.5" UICP makes it tough.

My 60' are in the 1.7-1.8's so some suspension mods would probably help. Car squats pretty drastically on launch, but that probably saves me from damaging parts.

Nate, would the spool make the car harder to drive on the street? As of now it's still my daily driver.

If I rememeber correctly, Bucci runs a inline water to air intercooler. That's going to be too commplicated for a daily driver. A front mount would help, the Supra SMIC I'm running right now made a drastic difference. I guess I could sell the Supra setup with pipes and buy a FMIC...

Good information guys keep it coming...

I've always wanted to try either a simple water squirter (like a windshield washer nossel) or a nitrous sprayer on the I/C.

Gaining the traction of a spool does mean you have to compromise some daily driving comfort. The short comings of the spool are noticed mainly in parking lots. Very slow turns cause the vehicle to bind and create popping noises from the CV's as well as chirps from the tires. I have noticed NO breakage or premature wear from this mod or it's side effects.

What it did for me on the track was lower my launch RPM by at least 1000RPM, because anything above that became an erruption in tire spinning even when I was running the 14b.

A 2-3 tenth drop in your 60 ft. will go a LONG way to achieving your goals.

I agree with Marcus on the points about the spool, though I've been fortunate enough not to get the CV joint pop sounds that he occasionally gets. Its only a problem for me when I'm in parking lots as well. Another plus to the spool is it makes it much easier to have a little fun with the rear end (sexual connotations aside). It makes the car handle a bit more like a rear wheel drive at speed around corners, but still with the added traction from the front wheels.

Btw, my stutter box is set at 5500 RPM which is probably a bit too high now that I have a spool.

AWD DSM, I looked into the intercooler sprayer idea too. But I figured by the time you got everything (pump, bottle, nozzels etc) together, it would probably be better just to run alcohol injection into the TB.

Nate and Kicks, what spools are you guys running? A spool would probably make running in the snow interesting?!?

I assume that KYB AGX strut are the standard suspension upgrade?

I'm running the TRE spool. I believe Nate went with the same thing.

Yep, TRE spool. Best way to lock your center diff. I've never run it in the snow, so I couldn't tell ya.

I run KYB AGX shocks and Eibach prokits springs. Not a real intensive setup, but it works for well drag racing.

ODT and I designed a water/alcohol injection system for his car way back when he was still running on the 14b. It worked pretty well. I'm sure he could provide you more detail on how he liked it.

If I remember right, we got the best results running a mixture of denatured alcohol and water. The water best serves to cool the intake charge because it has a very high latent heat of vaporization, meaning it consumes more heat from the intake charge to change state from water droplets to water vapor. So if you are looking solely for a cooling mechanism 100% water is the way to go.

The denatured alcohol actually acts an octane booster. I believe its octane is rated somewhere around 120 so adding it to the intake charge boosts your effective octane and requires you to run slightly less fuel while it is being injected. The higher your octane the less important it is to have a cool intake charge because the higher octane mixture in the combustion chamber is less likely to detonate.

Regardless, cooler intake charge + higher octane -> more boost = more power

With the caveat that too much of either water or octane can also lead to problems.

This is true and includes the cooling effects of water/alky injection. When I ran my 12.6's it was on straight 112 octane leaded fuel. The most knock I seen was about 4 counts in forth with or without the water injection on. This was a 24psi on the 14b mind you.

Normally I run 110 and 20 lbs of boost, but on the last outing of last year I was loaded up with 112, and was going to try to run 22lb+ of boost. But they closed the track due to pending rain...and it didn't rain

KYB AGX shocks and Eibach prokits springs seemed to be the accepted standard after doing some research this morning.

Incidently, There's a set of AGX on Ebay that have broken adjuster knob on the fronts, can those be fixed?

I'm thinking water injection would be a better setup for a 14B over a bigger front mount. My reasoning being the FMIC would have more turbo lag driven by filling that much volume.

I'm not certain...

I feel that water injection did nothing for me when I was using race gas. Which means it was only usefull for higher boost on the street with pump gas. I don't think you are concerned about anything except track performance. If that is the case then race gas would be the standard by which I would tune if it were me.

With water injection out of the loop, that really only leaves intercooler upgrades for improvement. I feel that the change of intake air temps through a constantly repeatable method is the way to go. A biger FMIC will still have an effect on the air without diluting the fuel mixture, regardless of the octane that you decide to run.

I am also skeptical of any more power being gleaned from additinal boost on the 14b. I was running 24 pounds at a slower MPH than you were running on 20 pounds. There may be a happy medium in there but you are very near the maximum beneficial output of the turbo in my experience.

ODT definitely knows the ins and outs of beating 14b's to death.

I decided that I better examine the fuel system and see what it will support.

Fuel pump check:
37 psi base pressure + 22 psi boost = 59psi
We’ll call it 60

A Walbro 190 @ 13.5 volts @ 60psi flows 42 GPH

Using Kick’s formulas on LINK , with a 25% safety factor and Wort’s recommended .55 BSFC in the stated thread.
42 GPH X 7.25=304.5 lb/hr / .55 BSFC= 553 max HP/1.25= 442 HP so fuel pump should support an 11.99

Injector Check:
Currently running 550’s at 37 base FP
Again running Kick’s formulas:

550cc/10.5=52.3 lb/hr X .90DC/.55 BSFC = 85.7 HP/Inj X 4 = 342 HP
So I’m short on injectors…

Running 550’s @ 42 psi base FP = 590cc
590cc/10.5= 56.2 lb/hr X .90DC/.55 BSFC = 91.9 HP/Inj X 4 = 367 HP
That’s pretty close to the needed 375 calculated HP

Upgrading to 660’s
650cc/10.5=61.9 lb/hr X .90DC/.55 BSFC = 101 HP/Inj X 4 = 404 HP
No problem there.

Well it looks like the fuel pump will support an 11, but the 550's are marginal[B]

Just as an FYI, fuel injector CC ratings are almost always done at around 43psi. So 550cc injectors flow 550cc at a base pressure of 43psi, not stock 1G 37psi.

Hmmm, so my math would be right except I'd have to run the 550's at about 48psi base to make them run as 590's right?

Yeah, you've got it. And I'm sure you know that as the base pressure goes up, the demands on the pump increase very quickly.

Project update....looks like the turbo puked last night!! Lot's of smoke out the tailpipe, dumped oil on the ground from I think the vband clamp area on the exhaust side.

Anybody got a good 14B turbo...just in case?

Well, slow going as usual. Pulled the complete A/C system, replaced a blown front axle, cleaned the quart of oil from the exhaust system etc.

Now just waiting on new crush washers from Mitsu to finish installing the rebuilt turbo.

Been shopping for a new Trailblazer for the wife. Which mean the Talon can drop down from DD status and allow me some more flexibility in modifications. Plus I'll have something to tow it home when it breaks!

Its alive!!!!

Thanks to AWD DSM 1 for suppling a new banjo bolt for my turbo oil feed line...I got her running again this morning!

I think the 15 min drive blew out the rest of the dumped oil in the CAT back creating a nice smoke screen and some interesting looks from the neighbors, so I should be good.

I'll be PMing you soon ncgalant to get that chip so I can get the eprom ecu installed.

Thought I post up a few picture of my oil pressure sending unit relocation. I killed the first one due to vibration and got it replaced under warrenty from Autometer.

Pict1

I fabricated a bracket from 1/8" steel to locate support and ground the sending unit. A band clamp holds the sender to the bracket.
Pict2


A new chip is being burnt by ncgalant...can't wait to try out a stutterbox!!

Since I got rid of the AC system, can I get rid of one of the AC fan? Or is it worth keeping around for those hot August days?

If you keep the A/C fan, you can use the A/C switch on the dash to turn the AC fan on/off.

The A/C fan will never turn on unless the the A/C is on, no matter how hot the engine gets.

Or you can rewire the AC fan so that it turns on with the other fan.

But do I need the extra fan, or will the single fan be enough to keep the engine cool? I was thinking it be some good weight reduction.

Got my remapped eproms for ncgalant today. Can't wait to see how they work!

I only use one fan, but it's a high flow Spal fan (the best IMO). With the stroker I had to upgrade to a Fluidyne radiator though. So my input isn't much help. I would try it if it doesn't keep her cool in the summer then wire the AC fan in with the regular fan.

I would run both as a precaution, if anything just to keep her cooler in the staging lanes. It won't hurt anything but weight to run it, and even then you're saving what, 5lbs (if even that) of weight?

Yeah, I'll probably weigh it to see if it worth getting rid off. It sure looks heavy...

Progress! Finally got the Eprom ECU in and spent some time with NCgalant tuning this afternoon.

Got a good basic tune. Almost all the around town mid throttle knock is eliminated. Few short 2-3 gears runs look pretty decent on the logger, seems to pull harder on less boost (15-16psi).

A little work on the Maft Translator and maybe another chip tweak and it should be good.

I forgot to try out the stutterbox on the way home though...

After last weekend's run of 12.476 @ 109.89 I took the car over to NCgalant for a little more tuning. It still had knock (alot) with some 110 in the tank so was still in need of some tuning. After a couple of chip burns the car feels REALLY strong, pulls hard and I can now run 18psi on pump gas with almost no knock!!! Nathan's my frickin hero!

Can't wait for the next track outing, possibly this SAT

Time for a little update.

I think my wierd part throttle knock issues last week might have been due to a really bad tank of gas. It seems to have gone away. I replaced the knock sensor and still had the part throttle knock, threw some new gas in and it seems to have gone away. Hopefully that was it and it won't come back.

Went to the bracket races 5/12 and put 2 gal 110 in, just in case. It was pretty warm and with the previous knock issues I wasn't taking any chances.

First run @16 psi, missed 3rd and ran a 13.1. Logs were perfect, 1-2 counts of knock, 18 degrees timing through the lights, WB 11.5:1

Second run @17 psi, ran a 12.68. Logs look like run 1

Third run was eliminations, got a good launch (1.770 60') but screwed third gear again and ran another 13.1 and got beat. Logs look great, no knock at all. Weather cooled off and WB was around 12.5:1

The latest chip burn looks like it might be really good. Next trip (this Friday) I'll see what 20 psi will run. Some cool weather might get me in the 12.2's

I have noticed on the hiway, it goes into open loop pretty easily cruising about 75-80. Ncgalant, I think you said something about tweaking the chip to keep it in closed loop longer, I think we may want to do that.

Hit the track again tonight. Apparently the shifting issues from the last trip weren't completely due to my incompetance, Looks like the rubber bushing at the shifter base went really soft and was allowing the shifter to not get enough throw. First run tonight, I couldn't get the car back into first or second...it was locked out. I managed to cobble together some washers and tighten down the right side.

Got about 4 decent runs in trying to get a dial in for the Trophy class. Made three 12.8X runs taking it easy on the boost. First race it cooled off more than I thought and ran a 12.77on the 12.82 dial but the snowmobile red lit and put me on to the second round. Second round I dropped the dial in to a 12.70 and ran a 12.62! And a new best 60' 1.739

Last 2 runs of the night the car wouldn't shift into 3, figures...car was running good so I turned up the boost trying to run a new best on a nice cool night.

So I guess tomorrow I'll be taking the shifter apart and try to get it rigidly mounted. Wish I would have bought one of those hard bushing sets for the shifter when I was looking at them over the winter. Anybody got one they want to get rid of???

LOL, I think I GAVE mine away when I parted my car out!! Sorry man, but good luck.

I found a set of solid mounts on Ebay...have to order next week.

I cut the metal insert shorter and clamped the rubber down with big washers so the shifter pretty rigid now. Hopefully that fixes the problem.

Boost check showed a leaky BOV...oh well. We'll see what happens tomorrow at SCDC!! Hell, I think the wife and kids are even coming to watch.

What BOV are you running? I have a 1G laying around somewhere that I can try to dig up and bring it with so that you can use it for the day.

Try crushing it a very small amount. That will increase the spring rate inside and hopefully give you a little more holding pressure. DON'T do very much right away. Just the littlest bit is good enough. It's only two little bolts so don't get bent over having to take it off a couple times and get the crush just right.

scorp28
It's a Turbo RFL XS...the upper intercooler is flanged for a stock bov though. I have an adapter to run the Turbo XS.

turbohcar
You know what BOV I'm running...I bought it off of you!!!

OH DAMN

I totally forgot about it when I saw you drive by me at the track today. I am really sorry about that. I hope that wasn't the reason that you didn't get into the 12's today.

I got into the 12's....just not when it counted!

I forgot to look for you too, no big deal. Still had a good time!

Might have to use my AMS gift certificate on one of these: Tial BOV

Marcus, arn't you running one of these?

Yes Sir.

The tightwad in me decided to give a stock BOV another chance so I've got one coming. I'll try crushing it if it won't hold 20 psi.

I may try to lap the piston in the Turbo Xs BOV to see if I can get it to seal. It's junk otherwise so I have nothing to lose.

Got my Symborski Shifter Kit from MACH V yesterday. So that's going in this week to try to tighten up the shifter.

I'd really like to fix the rear suspension (all camber bolts rusted tight) but I don't see how I can easily cut them out. Does anyone have access to a plasma cutter, and the ability to use it! Seems to me a plasma would make sort work of all the bolts. I could then burn out the old bushing, replaced them with urathane and get the damn thing aligned finally!

I could then upgrade the struts to KYB's....and if anyone has seen my car launch, they can see it needs struts.- the front end rises 8" and th back looks like it bottoms out!

Some stiffer suspension springs might help too.

Have you seen this mod you can do to the stock 1G BOV?
http://www.thedodgegarage.com/turbo_bov_mod.html

I performed this mod and was able to hold over 30 psi as long as the added tube was referencing atmosphere rather than engine vacuum. I ended up upgrading to a Tial anyway because I needed the extra flow to avoid compressor surge.

I also performed the mod. that Natedogg referenced. I liked it much better than the crushed 1G. This mod allowed the BOV to work like normal, only at a higher psi, where the crushed BO seems like it's about to blow apart when it finally releases.

I just saw that link the other day, haven't had time to really read it and check it out. I guess I will

Stiffer springs would probably help too. But is like a upgrade circle all hinging on the rusted camber bolts....can't add new strut,s can't add new springs etc until I'm able to get the bolts loose and the supension updated to be able to get the alignment done after I change everything.

I got the Symborski Shifter Kit from MACH V installed today...kind of. The bushing that replaces the stock rubber part are nice quality and fit well.

However the sleeve included in the kit is no good. It's too long to fit in the mount (stock 2.595" long, the Kit's is 2.625") Also it's supposed to tighten up the pivot bolt slop. The stock sleeve measures .323" ID, the Mach V sleeve has an ID on one side or .321 and .323 on the other. So that's not really improving anything. I guess I'll email MACH V Monday and see what they will do.

I got another stock BOV, but it won't hold 20 psi during a pressure test. Looks like I be doing the "dodge garage" mod to it.

Please explain this "dodge garage" terminology. I only speak General Motors and Mitsubishi.

http://www.thedodgegarage.com/turbo_bov_mod.html

Come on Turbo...you're not paying attention to my thread...

Tried to rebuild the shifter to take all the slop out of it, and thereby only leaving my crappy driving responsible for missing shifts

I tried ordering all new plastic bushing to get rid of all the shaft wiggle, but apparently they are now longer available. I did pick up a new centering spring. I haven't taken the car out yet but it definitly helps guide the shifter more positively into third gear.