Hey all. After letting my car sit in my garage (waiting for funds to show up) i've got it back out on the road....almost. It's been having starting issues along with timing, electrical, cosmetic (interior and exterior), and overall tlc.

So here's the plan. I'm going to start stock piling parts and then me and my buddy are going to tear the whole engine and engine bay apart. Clean or replace everything in our way and revive a beastly engine to (hopefully) wake up the neighborhood once again.

The initial list of needed parts (not including engine components)

- Blow Through UICP (Replacing old UICP)
- K & N Air Filter (Replacing severely damaged K & N Filter)
- Fuel Rail (Need advice on quality brands)
- 660 or greater injectors (Need advice on quality brands)
- Intake Manifold (Need advice on whether to go with OEM or other brand)
- Exhaust Manifold/Header for 14b/16g/20g turbo
- Currently running 14b - looking to upgrade to 16g
- New Vacuum lines
- Possibly SAFC (unsure)
- Possibly Electronic Boost Controller (currently using MBC underhood)
- Downpipe

Any advice on parts or procedures would be greatly appreciated.

I'll update thread with engine components within the next few days (pistons, rods etc)

Sounds like fun

Here is my .02 on your build, components, etc.

Good 2.5" UICP is an easy build, 10 minutes with a welder and $20, and it will flow well.

OEM fuel rail is fine, unless you're shooting for the stars.

660s? I loved my Denso's.

OEM intake.

Ported EVO3 exhaust manifold, EVO3 16g, EVO o2 housing.

MAF-Translator will handle more power than the safc, but tune on a wideband.

3" Downpipe.


Obviously, this is just my opinion, but this build will make good midrange power and be excellent for street use. I don't like high-strung motors

I've got the MAF-Translator.

Stock Downpipe...but i'm looking at up grading the whole exhaust from 2.5" to 3"

Where can i get a quality used Evo3 16g or better yet....the whole package?...i don't trust eBay for turbos...don't know why...just don't.

With the blow-through UICP i was planning on running my filter right off the turbo...i've seen it done before....good/bad?

The engine is already up to a 2.4L....is an OEM fuel rail going to be able to cut it?

If i'm running the EVO3 16g, 255 Walbro Fuel Pump....are 660s going to cut it or should i go higher?

Couldn't remember what exact setup you had to tune, but to get the most out of it I'd do a SAFC+MAFT at a minimum. If you've got the $$ then DSMLink is really the way to go.



This will make a huge difference.



OEM is plenty.



660s are a good match for an evo3 16g and even have a little extra to give. You could talk to Dan to see if he still has my old Denso 720s laying around also.

I've got some 950's I'll sell you if you want lots of head room. If I'm reading you right, you have a 2.4. That will require more fuel than a 2.0 with a 16g

2.4 will definitely need more fuel, and in all reality, that engine IMO will be wasted on a 16g. Cheap, streetable, but I'd go bigger... didn't realize the 2.4 part.

without needing a whole front mount kit and larger injectors (over 660)....i though that the EVO3 16g would be a decent setup

I persoanlly think the EVOIII 16g would make a great turbo on a 2.4 for Auto-x and street driving. It very well may run out of legs on the top of the RPM band. I bet it would be similar to the stock 2.0/14b characteristics except on steroids! The 2.4 and even a 2.0 can breath way out there on the RPM band with the bigger turbos. For the street an EVOIII will be hard to beat by anything but the real bad a$$ cars.

Once you're talking turbocharged cars, displacement has zero effect on the total fuel required. The compressor housing/wheel will choke out at exactly the same power level no matter if its a 1.5 or a 5.7. A 2.0 maxing out a 16g requires exactly the same amount of fuel as a 2.4 does.

On my heavily cammed 2.3, a single Evo III turbo would drop to about 16-17 psi by 8k rpm. It would probably hold 20psi with stock cams.

660's should be enough fuel, but they won't leave you with much breathing room.

Excellent call, and thanks for the correction... Been awhile since I've dealt with these cars I agree with Kicks, I think it would be a great street set-up, and spool would be great. I just always want more, and every time I've built a car, I've ended up wishing I had built in more headroom. It'd be tough to max out a 35, for example, but having the ability to go up in boost is nice.

Right now, i'm running a 14b at close to 9psi.

the goal is to have a powerful street car....i don't need 450hp+ when i'm going 20mph through the 3 school zones between my house and where i work.

i'll get the larger injectors but stick with the 16g

question though, where can i pick up a reliable evo3 16g (new or used). i'm very skeptical about going through eBay.

also, where would y'all suggest i find the manifold?

Have you considered running the 14b to it's full potential? What's your final goal? Mid to low 12's are obtainable...

Not with a FWD on street tires its not.

Use your stock manifold. A 2g manifold is a great match for a 16g. As for where to get it, I'd check around at all of your normal DSM vendors. I think we've got a links section on here.

You'll likely see full spool around 2500 with the torque falling off significantly after 5k. If you want more top end than that you'll need cams.

Ok...I missed the FWD part. Still, he's only running the 14b at 9 psi....that's not even close to using it to it's capabilty. Run that 14b to 18-20 psi and it should still run decent numbers. A 16g will definitely make up on the top end for the traction limited FWD launch. But again it's all what you want to get out of the car TotalEclipse97.

Hmm...Interesting. I had to up my injectors when I went stroker. I was running the same turbo as I was on the 2.0 for a while anyway. Only thing I really changed was to a stroker engine. Boost was pretty much the same too. Not saying you're wrong, because it makes sense since the turbo is pretty much what determines your airflow, but for some reason or another, I needed bigger injectors when I stroked. <-- Yes Jbone...I know.

Since you kept the boost the same, you made more power with the stroker, and needed more fuel. You didn't have enough injector to max out the 2.0 either

Ahh but the low-end torque is wonderful!

a 12sec car would be awesome....i can shoot for something close to that.

i'm looking for a reliable setup for this engine w/ either a maxed out 14b or a 16g that can give me more room to breathe if i end up wanting to keep going on mods later on.

IMO, the E316g will be as much fun as you can imagine for a VERY long time. You can take that turbo all the way through a total FMIC upgrade and many other higher-end mods without exceeding it's capacity. I absolutely loved mine, and I regret the situation that led to my getting rid of it.

I ran 660's on it without any problems, but that was at about 22psi on a stock intercooler, so I don't know what one would do on the rocket with it's ginormous front mount. Of course, I have plenty of time to find out now that I get to keep it.

The 14b will be maxed out...that's for sure. But it is fun running 12's on the "little" turbo. You could still run the bigger injectors and everything else and upgrade the turbo later.

If you have the money for the 16g I would go for it. If I had the extra money, I'd be running one. By my blown motor last year killed that plan, for now.

Goat, your keeping the Rocket?? We going to race this year?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the srt-4 have a 2.4 with a 16g turbo? I never really heard complaints from people who had them. Great throttle response and a good starting point for massive upgrades. I remember driving a stock one and it having great off boost response.

Update on parts:

brand new 3" downpipe is in the mail and hopefully this weekend i'll be picking up 950 injectors (thanks natedogg)

I wish I had a 3" DP... I'm still running a 2.5"

hmmmm.....downpipe envy.

It's not the size of you downpipe but how you use it!

If you are planning on any street driving at all. Buy an EPROM ECU and either a chip or DSMLink. You WILL NOT get 950s to work with just a piggyback. You can get it to idle with them, and go WOT with them, but street driving won't happen without a better ECU solution.

I wholeheartedly disagree with that statement. My 950's ran very well on just the MAFT. I expect they would do even better if using an SAFC in conjunction with the MAFT. I agree its not as versatile as a dsmlink or other standalone system, but my experience shows the 950's run fine with the MAFT.

I know that i need to get some sort of setup that i can fine tune the car.

ncgalant - didn't you hook up your PDA to the car and tune it that way?....or am i just missing what you guys are talking about.

I've had Ncgalant tune my car....

He uses the PDA to log what your car is doing and then burns a EPROM from a laptop that plug into your ECU (obviously you have to have a EPROM ECU), then he re-logs your car and the fine tunes from there.

My car was a diferent animal after a couple chips. I then fine tuned using my MAFT at the track to suit conditions, boost, race gas, weather etc.

The PDA just reads what the ECU is seeing and doing. You then use the MAFT/SAFC to change what the ECU sees in order to make it do what you want it to do.

Very large injectors can be made to work with the stock ECU maps. The problem comes when you run low boost numbers with large injectors. To get a proper A/F ratio with 950s you will have to pull more than 50% of the airflow value to compensate. If you are flowing 40-50% more air than a factory car, then the numbers will line up at near stock values. If you run boost near the factory amount then the computer gets a low airflow/rev(load) value. This condition will increase your ignition timing advance and lower the number of degrees the ECU will retard timing upon seeing knock.

so what would i need to cover all bases with tuning and still have a few dollars to spend on gas?

It has less to do with how much boost you are running and more to do with airflow. 15 psi on a 14b is less airflow than 15 psi on an EvoIII 16G. I personally believe that if you run around 20 psi on an EVOIII 16G, the 950's will do fine for you on the MAFT because they did fine for me on my BR500 which surprisingly enough doesn't flow all that much more than an EvoIII 16G.

The MAFT adjusts global airflow input values to make the 950's act like 450's at idle and when driving around town. It also has the ability to tune idle, mid and WOT separately, and at different RPM points. Moving to the 950's you do lose some map resolution, but not enough to really notice plus this is still true to a lesser extent of a chipped Eprom or DSMlink. The only way to really get around all resolution loss is to go completely standalone, like an AEM.

I honestly don't think you will have any trouble running with just a MAFT if you want to keep it easy on the pocketbook.

i just made a list of the internal stuff that i'll need for the car.

it's looking like i'll need to replace a few collapsed lifters, and a better clutch (currently a n ACT 2100).

the main problem right is getting it to start in the morning.

if i let the car sit for more than 2hrs (outside), the car will turn over but not fire enough to start up. this is ammended by spraying starter fluid into my intake.

my buddy and i havn't been able to track down the problem.

the fuel pump is good and strong, we replaced the fuel filter, we're getting great spark on the plugs, brand new battery (700CCA), running 93 octane, and we cleaned the injectors.........any thoughts?

Could be a vacuum/boost leak. You might want to do a boost leak test.

Could be a fuel pressure regulator issue as well. I actually have an after-market adjustable FPR complete with fuel pressure guage if you're interested in that as well. Its a good thing to have if you have an aftermarket fuel pump that runs at a higher pressure.

Oh and the timing is dead on.

My starter just died this morning so i'm going to get a replacement.

This weekend my buddy and i are going to replace all vacuum lines and search out the issue.

It won't start at all without starting fluid?

i was running 950's with my evo3 16g, 2g maf, and chipped eprom. it was pig rich til the boost came on

no, it won't start (it will turn over) but it will not start if i let it cool down enough.

starter fluid (and some patience) tends to get her going once again.

car is still having problems starting. finally got it tuned alittle better.

found a hole in my water pump....need a new one....dang.

Just picked up a pump from NAPA, under $50. Came with a gasket and oring for the water tube.

i'm getting one at autozone this afternoon...thanks though

Autozone rewards cards are pretty nice.

5-6 purchases over $20 in under 6 months and you get $25 giftcard.

i think i'm at 4 in under a month....

I've been told there have been problems with autozone and advance pumps.

I HIGHLY recommend that you do NOT use an AutoZone or / Advance Auto water pump. They have lifetime warranties, but I can tell you from experience. That warranty means CRAP after you have replaced the same pump 3-4 times. On a DSM the implications could be even more expensive if the Timing belt gets slippery coolant all over it while running.

Spend the extra few dollars for a piece of mind. Nothing's perfect, but you are really gambling with the cheap pumps.

noted sir.

i'll be returning this pump on monday.

btw...i just replaced my thermostat on the car.....the moron who installed it (former owner of KOU) installed it without a gasket.....he just squirted some RTV on it and sealed it up.

...moron.

finally (after 1yr) got the car to start on it's own on the first try. i had to replace the Engine Coolant Temp Sensor.

950's are going in this afternoon. i'm still looking for a EVOIII 16g or bigger if anyone knows of anything...it would be appreciated.

i've found a few on ebay made by Journal Bearings....has anyone ever heard of them?

the rest of my 3" exhaust is in the mail. i'm still havn't gotten my test pipe yet though.

the goal for the car is between 300hp and 350hp. i believe that this engine dyno'd at 370hp with a frank3 on it.

Never heard of Journal Bearings on ebay.

Punishment Racing is selling a China made turbo on ebay. Punishment has a good reputation and it comes with a warenty. I'd look into that one if you're the "ebay" turbo route.

Old Ebay Link

picked up a TD05H 16g off ebay yesterday.

got my 3" exhaust in the mail yesterday also.

hey...im looking for a 3" ID testpipe or CAT for my eclipse.

i've seen 3" ones for 91-94 eclipses but i can only find 2.25" for the 95-99s

are the two that different?