I watched an unlikely program this morning called 'Who killed the electric car'. This program is base around GM's EV1 electric car. It's creation because of California's mandate to the automakers... and then it's disturbing demise. Surprisingly, there is a WHOLE LOT more to this documentary than the electric car.

Although I would NOT have originally expected to care about much of this, the other points really opened my eyes to some cruel realities. I for one am ashamed of some of my blind beliefs to date and feeding the OPEC monster with my aggressive pursuit of the performance car hobby. Driving around in a 12-13mpg truck seems REALLY stupid to me at this point.

There are a lot of alternatives that we could use to free ourselves from the grasp of current large Corporate control, but they keep buying all these new ideas up and burying them from us.

Anyone that knows me will know that I am not a person that takes conspiracy theory too seriously. These are just facts driven by business decisions, that unfortunately have been empowered by us consumers willing to be brain washed. Brain washing that is built around our American heritage and desire for all that is 'Big' and 'Strong'.

I don't know if this documentary flick will affect anyone else as it has my perception on things, but I do recommend that everyone checks it out. If you have Starz it is due to air again on March 24th. I have Mediacom and it is also a freely accessible movie.

Check it out and let me know what you think.

There are a number of trailers and short clips from this documentary on Youtube.com found by searching for 'Who killed the electric car'.

Read "Divorce Your Car"

I had to for one of my electives. The first third of the book is about how bad everything automotive is. That can paint a grim picture. I then had to write a series of essays about how the world would change when oil hits $35/ gal. Take a second to think about how every facet of humanity will be reversed back to the 19th century in the blink of an eye. You'll see how I face an internal battle with myself over my love of cars.

While you're at it, check out "An Inconvenient Truth"

It's sad but true to look at the effects of our lust for horsepower.

On a different yet related note: Chrysler developed a turbine powered car in the mid 50s. It could operate on kerosene, grain alcohol, or gasoline. Super efficient. Didn't have that many moving parts, either. So it wasn't as dependant on oil, either. But before the 60s started all 56 models were destroyed (except 1 that was restored by a mechanic back where I am originally from). Why? No one honestly knows. But, it seems weird that an advancement in technology that could pose a threat to oil companies seemed to disappear right before the whole musclecar movement hit. May sound like a conspiracy theory, but that it extremely similar to what you're talking about, Kicks.

It was kickass to hear the guy start and rev the car. He'd place a nickel on its side on top of the motor and start it. Would never move. Then he'd rev it and you'd think you were about to take off on a flight. It was awesome!

i just watched the show on onDemand...

Kinda shocking all the crap they pull.
i'd own one of them ev1's

I'll have to check that book out J.

As far as An inconvenient Truth... That is going to be a sour pill to swallow, but it came to mind as I watched this EV1 documentary. Which means that I voted for Bush 8 years ago instead of Gore. I know my one vote wouldn't have helped in Illinois who already picked Gore, but how many others were fooled into the same decision as I?

[Side Political Note]
I don't trust much of what any politician says so I ignored most of their debates and based my core decision on Bush's alleged religious beliefs. I felt that this meant he had a good base to make decisions from. Wow! After watching all the crap that has unfolded over the past 8 years, I can honestly say I would vote the other way if I had it to do over again. Who knows how Gore would have reacted to the New York bombings and possible war. But I do believe that he would have been more powerful in fighting OPEC while championing his environmental fight.

Don't get me wrong. I think that our political system is as corrupt as the Oil industry and car manufacturers. So I understand that the president is only one small piece of the puzzle and assumably corrupt being that far up in the system.

[Back on subject]
There are more ideas out there to come up with or resurrect, but that person or company would have to be founded enough to resist selling out to the corporations for the quick buck! Then they would have to endure all kinds of legal pressures driven by the corporations need to protect their profits.

I feel that the only way we could overcome this oil extortion is by having MOST of the population unit in an attempt to do so. Getting that accomplished would be VERY unlikely. However, this little documentary changed my mind about a LOT of things in a bout 1 hours time!

Yeah, I'd drive this electric car from Tesla Motors!

I recall watching that sometime last year on Google videos. It was a good view.

Marcus, if you want to be exposed to more stuff that may change the way you think about things, you could read books by Zinn (The People's History of the United States) and Chomsky (Hegemony or Survival, Manufacturing Consent).

I've got a huge list of documentaries and books, that have all been pretty influential to me, if you're interested.

yeah, post them up or PM me with them.

The only thing I want to do is be careful not to get bogged down in too much theory or BS. I can understand most of what has been done as smart business decisions to protect the existing profits for the companies in question. Not a real brain buster.

I don't however, agree with our governement being bought off (partnered in or whatever) to allow these companies to use their dollars to do whatever they want for short term gains. Short term works out pretty well for an individual considering our relatively short lifetimes, but I would think that the long term effects should be where our government has a vested interest.

I'm sure it's too hard to get most of those in government to think about things this way when they can make great personal gains by selling off the future.

I've not seen this show, but the need to get away from oil as the basis of our economy right now is going to be a VERY TOUGH sell for me.

I'm trying to hold my tongue (fingers), Marcus. But I am NO fan of the Global Warming hype and the constant attempt by our government to subsidize unworthy alternatives (e.g. ethanol) that continue to ruin our economic situation.

There is more oil available on this earth than humanity has used, to-date. Viable alternatives WILL come about. But it won't be now and it won't be current tech.

See, couldn't hold my tongue...

OK, so, you riled me up.

Here's Edmunds' review of the flick, somewhat objective, I think: http://www.edmunds.com/advice/alternativef...57/article.html

GM has a new electric called the Volt. And it remains to be seen if it will hit true production. Just announced is a Mercedes all-battery vehicle (can't recall the model off the top of my head, but it's in last week's AutoWeek.

Realize electric cars until lately have had very limited range, much less than 200 miles until recent developments. These things have had very limited usability.

Further, in order to "refill", they have to be plugged in to "the grid". You know, the power the electrical company provides. Got a handy couple of outlets in your garage? Which voltage? How many amp draw? Anybody remember the rolling blackouts on the west coast last year?

How does America get her electricity? Coal. We've not built an atomic plant since the 70's. Wait, isn't coal a "carbon-based" fuel? Gee, yes it is. Local and state governments are having huge issues allowing new ones to be built. They hate atomic energy and coal as well. Today's power infrastructure sucks. There's wind and solar. Did you hear about the power outage in Texas last month? Yeah, no wind during a cold snap.

America wasn't ready for that vehicle. The Hollywood, flaming liberal environmentalist crowd may have been. But the numbers weren't going to be there in order to justify production in terms of handling warranties, legal liabilities, etc. There is a LOT of cost in a production model in order to support the thing and they need numbers to truly justify it. Add in that everybody and his brother is coming up with new options for using less oil to motate a car and it was clear it was going to be a short-lived brand.

*Shrug*

I need to see the flick, I suppose. I'd just be worried about my blood pressure and the security of my TV set while I was viewing it.

Dude...DON'T EVEN act like I'm some F'ing tree hugger!

You want to go at it...I'm all primed-up! The woman just pissed me off and I've got some anger to vent. (So don't take it personally)

I've been hard core oil burning muther for as long as I can remember. Look at the pic in my avatar. This is no tree hugger whim and I'm almost ALWAYS against Gov't control (Because I don't like authority figures anymore than anyone else). I don't believe ethanol or some other half baked fix will cure these ailments all by themselves either. I haven't even mentioned a fix, you are reading the WRONG message. Loving fast cars, I'm still sure that there are better cleaner ways to do things though. I've also been scoughing (sp?) at the wife's plea about Global warming for a couple years. It may or may not be true...that is not the issue I was bringing up.

I've already agreed that I understand the business' point of view...
My beef is with the gov't giving them the control to do what they want without using their office for the long range good of the country/people/the world...whatever. Let the Free market run with the exception of extortion and mafia style pay-offs from the big dogs. Then the better tech will come. All these faults that you point out are obvious, but isn't it obvious that they will never have a chance to refine them if those involved are not allowed to study and work through each issue? (Kinda like making your car faster - It doesn't happen on the first or second try). As long as they keep letting the big dog's squash the little guys, there will only be improvement when the big dogs are good and ready for it. (Read... They will have realigned their financing to make money on the next fuel source/program)

To put this in a perspective you may be familiar with. Did you watch the movie 'Tucker' Where the big three and the gov't squashed him before he could really get his fleet of new car technology off the ground. That is what this flick reminded me of and it PISSES ME OFF!

Is the government pefect....no way in hell.

Does it have to impose stricter emissions laws....hell yes.

Whether you beleive in global warming or not, cleaner vehicles from tighter emissions laws is important. Think California smog in the 70's. The tighter emissions lead to better fuel ecomomy. The govt has to set these requirements

I disagree that the market will drive new inovation (electric, Hyd DOD) that will decrease emission and increase fuel economy. The market doesn't give a shit...it buys bigger SUVs even with gas at $3.30 a gallon. The govt has to set the milage requirements otherwise everyone will be in the 60's getting 9 mpg. Now we have sports car making 60's muscle car HP, getting twice the milage and doing it a hell of a lot cleaner.

Electric vehicles true use is in the urban enviroment. In town, stop and go traffic where regenerative braking can recharge the batt pack. Where idling and contant accelerationin a concentrated area creates elevated air polution that affect people health. Would I drive to Chicago in one...no way. If I lived in Peoria, I'd consider it as a commuter car.

Hell, I don't know if this rambling contributes to the thread....but I typed it and I'm leaving it.

There are a ton of side issue that can be discussed here.

I agree with you comments on the electric car. I always considered the limited range of electric cars a huge issue. Hell, I live in BFE and only drive 13 miles to work. That kind of daily commute would be no problem at all for even the 90's electric car technology. How did I blindly ignore that fact all these years?

As far as government control it is a good point and a sour pill. There are tons of folks out there working on non standard ideas that would better our world. I agree that the buying public will not fund most of them. With the right kind of funding who knows what could happen!

Just to add my .02. I'm all for new ideas and a cleaner more efficient country. And I think there are definitely some underhanded things going on to slow this to a point. I'm just skeptical whenever hollywood releases a film about the environment or the government. I'm not saying either is perfect, but Hollywood has a pretty consistent track record of painting the picture for both uglier than reality.

That said, I do have the movie reserved in netflix now. If its a movie about cars that interests Kicks, chances are I'll find it interesting as well.

it's a documentary not a real movie.

They make claims like the judge an jury, but nothing that seemed far fetched. You really need to see it because it's hard to discuss it's possible flaws without seeing it.

Trust me it isn't perfect, but I'm not easily swayed by your average BS.

And sorry if I got a little ugly yesterday.

No, you weren't ugly. And I take that I did read you very wrong. I think we may both be on the same side of this issue.

There is new demand for "cleaner" cars. Hell, in certain cities, driving newer cars around actually CLEANS the air. How far do they have to f'ing go? Demand will drive the market and no American wants to give up trucks or gas mileage. Personal mobility is part of the American way these days. Nobody wants mass transit.

I think the mileage and smog laws are adequate today. It takes over 12 years to turn over the automobile population. We're dealing with 1996 cars about now, or just older, being the largest polluters, really.

But taxing my income to subsidize (pay for) research and production of alternatives, like ethanol, that raise the cost of EVERYTHING else (food for humans, food for livestock, milk, no grain for the world's starving) is stupid politics and nothing more. The government can mandate some human safety, sure. But mandating larger business decisions is NOT what the founding fathers had in mind.

OK, next ramble overwith for now... *Laugh*

Yeah, make I want to mak sure you know that I didn't mean gov't funding when I said funding in th earlier post. Mor like Future capitalists vs. venture capitalists.

And I would be fine with the Gov't not mandating anything as long as they didn't join in doing the dirty deeds of the big companies because of short sided pay-offs or whatever in the heck is making them side-up with those oily bastards!

I wrote a paper on that car a few years ago...........might have to check out the documentary and try and find my paper again

Wow...with 330mpg (yes I said 330) I'm surprised this made it to public awareness!

Check out this link... I think driving around in a miniature air plane looking car would be cool. Kind of a Jetsons style ride.

aptera-hybrid