Bearings Options

[cheaf]

Do i have to press the bearings into the block? MY friend told me that the rear silent shaft bearing has to be pressed into the block! The reason i ask is because when i go my oil pan off, the silent shaft bearing was in the bottom. Thanks, matt

[natedogg]

If you are talking about a 4g63 then no, none of the bearings are pressed into the block. Silent shaft bearing?

[wortdog]

The factory manuals always refer to the balance shafts as 'silent shafts'.

Putting those bearings in can be tough to do, are you actually putting those stupid shafts back in the car? I wouldn't.

If you're just putting in a shaft removal kit, don't worry, just use a socket and a hammer, it doesn't matter if you mess up the surface of the bearing then.

[natedogg]

Ahh.

[cheaf]

Is it true that with that balance shaft removal kit that you have to change the oil pump within like 20k miles?

[wortdog]

Not that I've ever heard of, and I've put about 10,000 miles on the last block I pulled the shafts from.

[cheaf]

Can you leave the front one in and remove the rear one, i just read on some guy's site that he just cut the rear shaft until it barely came out of the oil pump, and he just left the front one in there??

[ranta18]

Make sure to block the oiling holes for the shafts. If you don't the oil will have no resistance anymore and you'll have low oil pressure. Most of the time you can just rotate the bearings when you press them in and that will plug it. Screw the kit, just cut the old ones and grind it down to its smooth. Why pay money when you can do the same thing for free.

[wortdog]

You can't just cut the old rear one and grind it smooth, you also have to fill the hole in it somehow, usually by tapping it and putting a bolt in it. You can just leave the front shaft in place and pull the belt if you want, but if the engine is out of the car you might as well pull it too. If you plan on leaving the front shaft in, there's not much reason to buy a kit unless you don't feel comfortable cutting and tapping the rear shaft.

I bought the kit mainly because I knew I'd probably destroy the front bearings trying to get them out to rotate them. Sure enough, the rear bearing of the front shaft fell into two pieces with just a light tap. The stock balance shaft bearings are really fragile.

[natedogg]

Make sure to block the oiling holes for the shafts. If you don't the oil will have no resistance anymore and you'll have low oil pressure. Most of the time you can just rotate the bearings when you press them in and that will plug it. Screw the kit, just cut the old ones and grind it down to its smooth. Why pay money when you can do the same thing for free.

Stick to Hondas, Bones.

[ranta18]

LOL. I recently discovered Honda is one of the only companies that makes 6 different bearing thicknesses for each of the rods and mains instead of just STD and oversized sets. Us Honda boys can get the oil clearance down to the .0001" without having to mill the crank journals. We just put in thinner or thicker bearings. HAHA

Why can't you cut the one now? Its the one that runs with the oil pump right? Why would you run just one? That would really throw the motor out of wack. What does the elimination kit do different?

[cheaf]

Ok, if i were to put te rear balance shaft bearing in, do i have to pull the engine and would a machine shop have to do it? Can i do it myself? Instructions??

[wortdog]

Any work on the balance shafts is much much easier with the engine out of the car.

See the VFAQ for some pictures and a little bit of help:
http://www.vfaq.com/mods/balance-shafts.html

I've never bothered to put the things back in a motor I've done, so I don't know of an easy way to put in a new rear bearing. You can just find a socket that's the correct size(larger diameter than the inside diamater of the bearing but smaller than the diameter of the hole) and use a rubber mallet to beat on the socket and push the bearing in. It will require much patience to get the bearing in, as they are very easy to mess up.

[wortdog]

Why can't you cut the one now? Its the one that runs with the oil pump right? Why would you run just one? That would really throw the motor out of wack. What does the elimination kit do different?

When I said leave the front one in, I meant just cut the belt to it. Then it just sits there and does nothing, and you don't have to worry about the bearings and whatnot.

[ranta18]

Ok, I looked that that link. That little stuby piece is the EXACT same thing as just cutting the one thet use to go there. Also, I understand not running the belt on the other one, but why not cut that one too and then you're saving weight.

[wortdog]

Just ask Miami about how hard it is to pull the front shaft with the engine still in the car.

[resalturbo]

ooooooh weight, is it even going to be enough to make a diff.???

[ranta18]

Why not just do it right and save the weight? Every little bit helps. All I'm saying is if you have the whole dam motor 100% apart anyway then why not just do it? I'm putting my buddy's engine all back together next week and its all apart so thats why I'm saying this. I could understand if you just wanted to do it the cheap way and try to remove them while the engine was still in the car. But then how do you block the rear bearing from the shaft that you put the little stub piece in? Each shaft has 2 bearings right? One by the front of the engine (the timing belt side) and one in the middle or more towards the rear (the flywheel side). If you leave in the one and just cut the belt, you're fine, but the other one will have that bearing open and need to either be rotated or plugged.

You guys are confusing me and probably others by saying the front of the engine is the side where the turbo bolts to. Most engine builders say the front is the timing belt side and the rear is the flywheel side.

[wortdog]

On DSM's, one doesn't have to block the rear bearing for the rear shaft(the one thats attached to the oil pump). That bearing is fed oil from the balance shaft itself instead of from an oil gallery, which is one of the many reasons it tends to fail.

Sorry about the front rear thing, but that's just the common DSM terminology for the shafts.

[ranta18]

AHHHHH....I see. I hadn't looked at it that close when I took it apart. I remember Kris saying he had the bearings rotated. When I had my buddy bring the block to Kalina to get bored and honed, I just told him to tell Ken to rotate the rear bearings while he had it. Either way, doing it the way I'm thinking will work. I guess if you have the block apart you can save money and do it yourself. If not, you can buy the kit and save the hassle.

[natedogg]

On DSM's, one doesn't have to block the rear bearing for the rear shaft(the one thats attached to the oil pump). That bearing is fed oil from the balance shaft itself instead of from an oil gallery, which is one of the many reasons it tends to fail.

This is also why you can't just cut the rear (yes its called the rear) balance shaft down to a stub and use that. You need the stub shaft from the Mirage or eliminator kit.

[ranta18]

Why not? Why not just plug the oil hole in the end of the cut balance shaft? Either weld it shut or plug it.

[natedogg]

Because if you don't cut it and plug it perfectly, you will get extra vibrations on the oil pump sprocket which could either lead to oil pump failure or timing belt problems. It has happened in the past with guys trying the same thing you are suggesting. It has even rarely happened to guys with uneven casting flaws on the eliminator kit stub shaft according to guys on dsmtalk. You're free to believe what you want though. I'm just relaying info that I've learned in the past. I paid a whopping 20 bucks for my eliminator kit when I rebuilt my engine, and haven't had any problems. 20 bucks seems like affordable insurance considering the consequences.

I don't get it. In one thread you have a problem with the Blaha mod because its free and "unreliable". In this thread you have a problem with the conventional eliminator kit for basicly the opposite reasons. It costs money and is conventional even though its cheap and has been proven to work in the past. If I didn't know better, I'd just say you were a typical Honda guy thriving on conflict.

[ranta18]

LOL.... The two mods are of a completly different idea. One just removes a useless part and the other "tricks" another part into thinking something else and from what some people say, might not be the best thing, so its debateable. Honestly, I'm not trying to start anything with you DSM guys. In this thread I was just trying to get an explaination and learn why not to just cut it. You have done so, and I thank you.

I see what you're saying about it not being perfectly balanced and the fact that its connected to the oil pump housing. I might just tell him to buy the stubby piece if its only $20.

Sometimes asking why is a better way to learn than just going along with what everyone else says.

[natedogg]

I hear ya and agree. I was just giving you a hard time. I think you know that, though.

[awd4kicks]

Where did you find the eliminator for $20 Nate. I would like to get it for that price as well. The last one I purchased was for like $45 or so.

[natedogg]

Its been quite a while since I bought that, but I'm pretty sure I bought the kit from a guy selling them on ebay. As far as vendor pricing goes, I imagine turbotrix probably sells them for the cheapest, but that's just a guess. I've noticed vendor prices have been going up for everything DSM these days.

[ranta18]

My buddy ordered the $40 one and it should be here soon. Thanks.