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awd4kicks
post Mar 18 2006, 02:11 PM
Post #1


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I'm going to start my version of the DSMCentral project report others have been doing for a while now.

There is a lot of history that can be filled in later, but I'd like to start with the current upgrade path to date. In that vein I'd like to start of with the math or 'Engineering' if I may be so bold.

When building up a project car I think most of us have found it's best to have a goal in mind, otherwise you will end-up spending more money than necessary and for things that may or may not add to the total package.

The Talon has always been a work in progress for better acceleration with a heavy lean toward handling. I love to drag race, and I really like to autocross, and have a dream to be a road race driver burried in the back of my mind under all of the day to day responsibilites. This mentality has given the Talon a basic strut and coil over set-up with a front-to-rear spool that makes handling a breeze and makes a good roller for what ever power plant I can afford. With that in mind my upgrade goal is driven to increase acceleration.

How do you measure acceleration when you love to drag race? 1/4 mile ET's!

GOALS
10.8-11.3 sec. - Tentative 1/4 mile goal (Traction, Driving, breakage and planet alignment at perfect levels obviously laugh.gif )

3280Lb's - Near stock weight of vehicle with driver

460 - 550HP - Approximate wheel HP required via 1/4 mile calculator

555 - 663HP - Approximate crank HP required assuming 17% drivetrain loss

SUPPORTING REQUIREMENTS

FUEL
620HP - Max Wlaboro 255HP Fuel pump supply figuring 30psi boost in a 25% safety margin (10% options &.6 BSFC?)
(255lph/3.785=67gph x 7.25=485lbs/hr / .625=776 max HP / 1.25=622 HP)
(Correction 210lph/3.785=55gph x 7.25=399lbs/hr / .625=638 max HP / 1.25=510 HP)
(Optional #1? 210lph/3.785=55gph x 7.25=399lbs/hr / .625=638 max HP / 1.10=580 HP)
(Optional #2? 210lph/3.785=55gph x 7.25=399lbs/hr / .600=665 max HP / 1.10=604 HP)
(Optional #3? 210lph/3.785=55gph x 7.25=399lbs/hr / .560=712 max HP / 1.15=619 HP)
(Optional #4? 210lph/3.785=55gph x 7.25=399lbs/hr / .560=712 max HP / 1.10=647 HP)


600LPH - Fuel volume/flow of (Stevetek style) 6AN DSM fuel system @ 60psi
(2.35 times allowable volume than pump can supply)

488HP – Fuel supply through (4) 850cc injectors at stock pressure
(850cc/10.5=81lb/hr x.90(duty cycle)/.60=122HP/injector x 4=488HP)
(850cc/10.5=81lb/hr x.90(duty cycle)/.56=130HP/injector x 4=520HP)
(950cc/10.5=90lb/hr x.90(duty cycle)/.56=145HP/injector x 4=580HP)
(1000cc/10.5=95lb/hr x.90(duty cycle)/.56=152HP/injector x 4=608HP)
(1600cc/10.5=152lb/hr x.80(duty cycle)/.60=203HP/injector x 4=812HP)
(1600cc/10.5=152lb/hr x.90(duty cycle)/.56=244HP/injector x 4=976HP)
Optional injector sizes listed - HP amounts still questionably low dont they.

After running out of injector at 20psi and my base fuel pressure cranked up to 48psi I think it's safe to say that these calculation are much more correct when they are conservative. In light of this I have rerun the numbers using ,65 as the lowest BSFC possible to keep the HP numbers realistic. (850cc/10.5=81lb/hr x.90(duty cycle)/.65=112HP/injector x 4=448HP)
(1150cc/10.5=109lb/hr x.90(duty cycle)/.65=151HP/injector x 4=606HP)
(1600cc/10.5=152lb/hr x.75(duty cycle)/.65=175HP/injector x 4=701HP)


*This is obviously a questionable level. I need to recheck the figures but do plan on upping the fuel pressure if it will help sufficiently. With the same math except 100% duty cycle my stock 450 injectors figure out to support 288HP which figures pretty close to where I was with the 12.6 quarter mile runs. 850cc is 1.95 times bigger than 450s which I would like to say equates to 503HP at stock fuel pressures and 90% duty cycle.
Hmmm…can anyone shed better light on this? I would think 850cc injectors would be more than enough for 600crank HP, but it may be wishful thinking.

TURBO
503WHP/428WTQ – Max power applied with FP3052 ball bearing turbo on 93 octane
(See dyno chart in my garage – obviously is not my dyno run but a very similar build-up. This would figure up to 603HP and 515ft/lb’s of torque at the crank at 17% drive train loss. )

CLUTCH
400ft/lbs – Approximate holding power of existing 2600Pressure plate with street disk
500ft/lbs – Approximate holding power of ACT 2600 pressure plate with 6 puck disk
600ft/lbs – Approximate holding power of ACT 2900 pressure plate with street disk

MISC Support mods
1G EPROM ECU – remapped for 850cc injectors by NCGalant
Victory Performance Street front mount with 2.5” aluminum piping
FRH Intake manifold
Stage 2 ported head w/ .5mm oversized valves & dual valve springs w/ titanium retainers
Ported 2G exhaust manifold
Tial 44mm External waste gate to external dump
Tial Blow-off valve
3.5” GM MAF and 2.5” Dejontool blow through piping
GM MAF translator for fine tuning
TRE front to rear differential spool in an otherwise stock but fresh 1993 transmission
Koni Yellow struts and shocks with Eibach coilover springs set at about 1.5” drop
13lb. 16” RX7 rims wrapped with Sumitomo P225/50R16 fatties
Light weight battery

Let me know if anyone has more info on the products I have listed or input on this project. A lot of my numbers are approximate so don’t get too nitpicky on me. biggthumpup.gif[/COLOR]
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awd4kicks
post May 26 2006, 01:33 PM
Post #2


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From: Washburn
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Torque = 120ft/lbs


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Posts in this topic
- awd4kicks   The TALON   Mar 18 2006, 02:11 PM
- - wortdog   Just as an FYI, a re-wired Walbro 255hp only flows...   Mar 18 2006, 04:08 PM
- - awd4kicks   Thanks Wort. Any help on the injectors? Just to ...   Mar 18 2006, 05:38 PM
- - wortdog   As far as the injectors and the BSFC, 0.52-0.55 wo...   Mar 19 2006, 03:48 PM
- - awd4kicks   I ran some optional calculations with the 210lph m...   Mar 20 2006, 09:18 AM
- - AWD DSM 1   Daryl's also running high octane fuel with Nit...   Mar 20 2006, 09:22 AM
- - awdnot2   If I remember correctly we're around 65% duty ...   Mar 20 2006, 09:52 AM
- - awd4kicks   You are right, there are absolutely a TON of facto...   Mar 20 2006, 09:57 AM
- - awd4kicks   QUOTE (awdnot2gsx @ Mar 20 2006, 03:52 PM)If ...   Mar 20 2006, 10:30 AM
- - AWD DSM 1   I think the high octane fuel makes a heck of a dif...   Mar 20 2006, 10:57 AM
- - natedogg   QUOTE (awd4kicks @ Mar 20 2006, 10:30 AM)QUOT...   Mar 20 2006, 11:37 AM
- - awd4kicks   True & true... Do you feel that the fuel form...   Mar 20 2006, 11:39 AM
- - natedogg   Well, if there is anything that I've learned f...   Mar 20 2006, 11:49 AM
- - awd4kicks   Hahaha...cool. Well I talked to Chris at winner...   Mar 20 2006, 11:59 AM
- - ncgalant   Just as a reference, on my 327WHP run I was around...   Mar 20 2006, 12:18 PM
- - wortdog   QUOTE (ncgalant @ Mar 20 2006, 06:18 PM)One o...   Mar 20 2006, 12:29 PM
- - ncgalant   I hate being wrong, but you're right. Either ...   Mar 20 2006, 01:09 PM
- - awd4kicks   FINALLY! I now have an EPROM ECU. Hey NCGala...   Mar 22 2006, 02:50 PM
- - awd4kicks   Ok here is the Cylinder head update post: This st...   Apr 4 2006, 01:17 PM
- - awd4kicks   Close up of the O-ring area.   Apr 4 2006, 01:20 PM
- - awd4kicks   Close-up of the Dual spring set-up.   Apr 4 2006, 01:21 PM
- - haunter   nice!   Apr 4 2006, 01:27 PM
- - natedogg   Looking good man! Good to hear Weber tr...   Apr 4 2006, 01:37 PM
- - Hult250R   so exactly what kind of o-rings go on the head? Im...   Apr 4 2006, 06:49 PM
- - awd4kicks   QUOTE (Hult250R @ Apr 5 2006, 12:49 AM)so exa...   Apr 4 2006, 07:06 PM
- - Mitsu 77   Looks really good, what is the head flowing?   Apr 4 2006, 11:44 PM
- - Turbo Tension   holy shit Marcus you've modded the hell out of...   Apr 5 2006, 10:04 AM
- - awd4kicks   The cool thing is, it still pretty much looks stoc...   Apr 5 2006, 02:08 PM
- - AWD DSM 1   From the outside anyway... pop the hood and I thi...   Apr 5 2006, 02:28 PM
- - awd4kicks   Yeah it's definitely different under the hood,...   Apr 5 2006, 03:18 PM
- - natedogg   QUOTE (awd4kicks @ Apr 5 2006, 03:18 PM)Yeah ...   Apr 6 2006, 07:23 AM
- - awd4kicks   Stock appearing? Not hardley. My memory of the s...   Apr 15 2006, 11:29 AM
- - natedogg   In the past I've been able to tune out that cr...   Apr 15 2006, 03:04 PM
- - turbohcar   The Cosmo or Supra pump is as high as you can go f...   Apr 15 2006, 04:01 PM
- - Mitsu 77   Acctualy the walbro 255HP out flows the cosmo pump...   Apr 15 2006, 06:43 PM
- - wortdog   If you've eliminated the EGR, you'll want ...   Apr 16 2006, 12:15 AM
- - awd4kicks   Fuel lines are all upgraded to 6AN and the pump is...   Apr 16 2006, 12:55 AM
- - awd4kicks   After running out of injector at 20psi and my base...   May 3 2006, 12:09 PM
- - wortdog   I've heard a couple guys say they've used ...   May 3 2006, 12:33 PM
- - ncgalant   Yea, that car ran out of fuel faster than anything...   May 3 2006, 01:12 PM
- - awd4kicks   QUOTE (ncgalant @ May 3 2006, 07:12 PM)Yea, t...   May 4 2006, 11:36 AM
- - turbohcar   QUOTE (ncgalant @ May 3 2006, 01:12 PM)Yea, t...   May 4 2006, 12:47 PM
- - turbohcar   :blah darn keys!   May 4 2006, 12:49 PM
- - awd4kicks   Stop the presses... I found a few problems over t...   May 8 2006, 12:09 PM
- - AWD DSM 1   At least it's running! I'd say that...   May 8 2006, 12:45 PM
- - awd4kicks   That is VERY true! I had my arms up in Vic...   May 8 2006, 12:52 PM
- - ncgalant   I pulled the date back off of the two eproms he ha...   May 8 2006, 01:31 PM
- - awd4kicks   I re-ran my boost lines and reset my MBC and hooke...   May 9 2006, 10:13 AM
- - AWD DSM 1   4" boost leak checker... that's awesome...   May 9 2006, 10:20 AM
- - awd4kicks   Absolutely. I've got your TA ECU also.   May 9 2006, 11:23 AM
- - ncgalant   GREAT!! From the symptoms it had to be a ...   May 9 2006, 01:24 PM
- - awd4kicks   Back together again with the upper intake resealed...   May 19 2006, 09:55 PM
- - black92_tsi_awd   I windo-welded my mount and it shakes the steering...   May 20 2006, 08:46 AM
- - awd4kicks   I'm always up for a fun run But here's ...   May 20 2006, 12:09 PM
- - ncgalant   QUOTE (black92_tsi_awd @ May 20 2006, 08:46 A...   May 21 2006, 11:47 AM
- - awd4kicks   QUOTE (spyonu2007 @ May 21 2006, 02:49 PM)hit...   May 21 2006, 05:59 PM
- - awd4kicks   YEAH! I think I found my nitch! From now...   May 22 2006, 06:31 AM
- - awd4kicks   Hahaha DSM's are so predictable! Emotiona...   May 26 2006, 12:00 PM
- - awd4kicks   Haha No reason to mince words... I'll lay dow...   May 26 2006, 01:09 PM
- - The Iron Goat   You're puttin a felpro in that O-ringed head o...   May 26 2006, 01:25 PM
- - awdnot2   Since its oringed it may last forever. How high a...   May 26 2006, 01:32 PM
- - awd4kicks   Yes, considering the broken cylinder head had the ...   May 26 2006, 01:33 PM
- - awd4kicks   Torque = 120ft/lbs   May 26 2006, 01:33 PM
- - awdnot2   Oh yeah thats right. The temp head it not o-ringe...   May 26 2006, 01:44 PM
- - JMoushon   Marcus- Call me when you know what time you are go...   May 26 2006, 06:36 PM
- - awd4kicks   Update time... Ok I got the cylinder head back fr...   Jun 18 2006, 07:29 PM
- - awd4kicks   A new Denso Oxygen sensor has been ordered from Ma...   Jun 19 2006, 12:31 PM
- - AWD DSM 1   I give you 3 days til it's broke again.... ...   Jun 19 2006, 12:36 PM
- - awd4kicks   What makes you so optomistic about this time?   Jun 19 2006, 12:52 PM
- - awd4kicks   Hmmm... You were more right than you may have know...   Jun 25 2006, 12:28 PM
- - akamiami   keep at it buddy and don't loose heart. if I ...   Jun 25 2006, 01:31 PM
- - awd4kicks   ...short update. Long story short. Turbo is back...   Aug 5 2006, 10:39 PM
- - ncgalant   I'll give you a call after church. Maybe we c...   Aug 6 2006, 08:37 AM
- - AWD DSM 1   If your going to be in the area sometime, let me k...   Aug 6 2006, 08:52 AM
- - awd4kicks   Between NC & I brainstorming along with his MA...   Aug 8 2006, 12:49 PM
- - awd4kicks   UPDATE: I'm getting a new chip from NC tonight...   Aug 8 2006, 01:10 PM
- - The Iron Goat   You could be dealing with a sort of electrical ...   Aug 8 2006, 01:43 PM
- - wortdog   I had the exact same problem, I just set my ECU up...   Aug 8 2006, 01:45 PM
- - awd4kicks   QUOTE (wortdog @ Aug 8 2006, 07:45 PM)I had t...   Aug 8 2006, 02:11 PM
- - awd4kicks   QUOTE (The Iron Goat @ Aug 8 2006, 07:43 PM)Y...   Aug 8 2006, 02:16 PM
- - The Iron Goat   Such a nuissance can be remedied in a couple of wa...   Aug 8 2006, 07:00 PM
- - awd4kicks   Thanks Goat. I may take you up on that as soon as...   Aug 9 2006, 11:41 AM
- - ncgalant   Hey kicks, give me a call and let me know how that...   Aug 9 2006, 12:57 PM
- - The Iron Goat   QUOTE (awd4kicks @ Aug 9 2006, 11:41 AM)Thank...   Aug 9 2006, 01:10 PM
- - awd4kicks   Planning on loading the Talon up on R&T's ...   Aug 11 2006, 04:56 PM
- - awd4kicks   Holy Sheep Ship! Burning rubber through four ...   Aug 11 2006, 07:46 PM
- - black92_tsi_awd   If your going to be there for a couple of hours, m...   Aug 11 2006, 09:39 PM
- - BudmannG   QUOTE (awd4kicks @ Aug 11 2006, 08:46 PM)Holy...   Aug 11 2006, 11:19 PM
- - awd4kicks   If I can keep the front tiresfrom spinning this wi...   Aug 12 2006, 06:16 AM
- - turbohcar   You've got a Viscous Coupling eliminator in th...   Aug 12 2006, 08:56 AM
- - awd4kicks   Yup... without the VCE I would have to use an AWD ...   Aug 12 2006, 02:18 PM
- - black92_tsi_awd   The car sounded good man! Looks like you t...   Aug 12 2006, 02:44 PM
- - mitsu90   QUOTE (awd4kicks @ Aug 12 2006, 03:18 PM)I ha...   Aug 12 2006, 04:19 PM
- - AWD DSM 1   I've been running shell as well.... please fi...   Aug 12 2006, 04:57 PM
- - awd4kicks   Yes I'm looking forward to the 1/4 mile runs a...   Aug 12 2006, 05:33 PM
- - wortdog   I've had the best results with BP and Mobil ga...   Aug 12 2006, 05:48 PM
- - scorp28   QUOTE (awd4kicks @ Aug 12 2006, 06:33 PM)I do...   Aug 13 2006, 01:20 AM
- - natedogg   Awesome numbers! I'm glad she's stayi...   Aug 13 2006, 09:37 AM
- - AWD DSM 1   I got a ride last night.... 3rd gear, 80mph, FWD ...   Aug 13 2006, 10:23 AM
- - awd4kicks   453HP & 457ft./lb revised numbers after review...   Aug 13 2006, 04:28 PM
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