The TALON, Running Project Report Options

[awd4kicks]

Close-up of the Dual spring set-up.

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[haunter]

nice!

[natedogg]

Looking good man!

Good to hear Weber treated you well. I'll have to stick that in my back pocket for whenever or if ever my stock head starts limiting me.

Btw, I have a used HKS 264 intake cam on the exchange that you can have pretty cheap. Don't know how much it would actually be worth without an exhaust cam to go with it though...

[Hult250R]

so exactly what kind of o-rings go on the head?
Im looking at purchasing a block thats been o-ringed and am curious what and where to get them.

[awd4kicks]

so exactly what kind of o-rings go on the head?
Im looking at purchasing a block thats been o-ringed and am curious what and where to get them.

The O-rings you are looking for are exactly the same as what I had installed in the cylinder head. You can put them in either the block or the head. Most choose the block. From what I hear this is because the head needs remachined more often than the block and without O-rings will make the rework price less expensive.

The O-ring is simply a piece of stainless steel wire that is fit into a groove cut in the head or deck surface by a machine shop. There may be a shop locally that can do this work, but I couldn't find one. Webber racing can take care of you if you can't locate one.

[Mitsu 77]

Looks really good, what is the head flowing?

[Turbo Tension]

holy shit Marcus you've modded the hell out of that car!

[awd4kicks]

The cool thing is, it still pretty much looks stock like it always did aside from the monster FMIC behind the bumper.

[AWD DSM 1]

From the outside anyway... pop the hood and I think that big hairdryer sticks out pretty good.

[awd4kicks]

Yeah it's definitely different under the hood, but it's not blingin show car. The other comuter's won't suspect the punch she's packin for the most part.

[natedogg]

Yeah it's definitely different under the hood, but it's not blingin show car.  The other comuter's won't suspect the punch she's packin for the most part. 

Once you put those cams in they might.

[awd4kicks]

Stock appearing? Not hardley. My memory of the stock like 14b car was a little off.

The air noise from the BOV and the turbo are unavoidable calling cards for attention to this thing when drivng at anything over 20% throttle.

The popping noise came back the next day after the spark plugs were replaced with 8's though. I found a problem where I was losing fuel pressure as the RPM's went up. A simple elimination of the factory FPR solenoid, that I should have done a long time ago seemed to take care of the issue once and for all. So I appologize for missleading anyone with the spark plug issue. The spark plug wires are the only other thing that was altered both times the popping was stopped. They are the good Taylor wires and they ohm'd out to be in good shape. Right now I'm just happy the popping is gone.

NCGalant and I finally got it tuned to run WOT with out knock. I had to sacrifice more timing and give more fuel to do it, but she's running hard at 20psi with virtually no knock at WOT. Some of you know how hard it is for me to give up glorious timing, and boost while adding more of the fuel I am running out of. It is good for a base tune though.

I've found that the formulas for fuel injectors and fuel pump are not too conservative. I had to raise my fuel pressure to a base of 48psi just to get the 850's from 115% duty cycle to 90% duty cycle and the fuel pump is falling off at about 7k RPM. Again this is at 20 freakin PSI and we still need to put a little timing back into the program. She pulls good right now, but until I upgrade the injectors and fuel pump I can niether turn up the boost or get the larger cams I want. I may have to throw in some race gas at SloPny Drag Day to see a respectible number.

One problem that is irritating me on the base tune is the fact that I'm getting full knock at like 15-20% throttle all the time. This just so happens to be the throttle position that you run in almost all the time under normal comuting conditions. So I get little or no timing and the power output is very unstable at this level. Plus if you dip into the throttle from this knocking condition you retain the knock (well we did before we killed the knock) Does anyone have any ideas on this VERY light throttle knock?

[natedogg]

In the past I've been able to tune out that cruise knock with the idle and/or mid throttle adjustments on the MAFT. You could also try the RPM dependent tuning on it to see if that helps at low RPM.

Are you running a Walbro 255 high pressure right now? Are all your fuel lines upgraded? If the answer to both of these questions is yes, then chances are I'll need to upgrade my fuel pump as well. What are you thinking about upgrading to?

[turbohcar]

The Cosmo or Supra pump is as high as you can go for in-tank pumps as far as I know. After that' it's the Aeromotive in-line 1000hp pump.

[Mitsu 77]

Acctualy the walbro 255HP out flows the cosmo pump. But if any one wants one I have one.

[wortdog]

If you've eliminated the EGR, you'll want to back off your part throttle/low rpm timing a bit. That should help with the part throttle knock.

[awd4kicks]

Fuel lines are all upgraded to 6AN and the pump is a Walboro 255HP. I haven't really looked around for a better pump yet. I still need to do some research there.

Thanks Wort, I have eliminated the EGR a long time ago and I believe NC has made an attempt to reduce knock by pulling out low and mid range timing. I think at the time of this change we were aiming at cleaning up WOT knock by not letting it get started early on in the RPM band. However, the part throttle, or barely on the gas condition is still throwing wild knock counts out.

BTW, I forgot how much AWD Drifts rock! Jbone says the Talon's power delivery feels ok right now, but conservative and that spool is on with no lag. I can feel some lag if I start too low in the RPM band, but it is probably not much worse than my 14b was I guess.

[awd4kicks]

After running out of injector at 20psi and my base fuel pressure cranked up to 48psi I think it's safe to say that these injector calculations are much more realistic when they are conservative. In light of this I have re-run the numbers using .65 as the lowest BSFC possible to keep the HP numbers in a realistic range. The Injector Clinic has an 1150cc injector option now for $370 or amazingly I can get 1600cc injectors from them for $260. As you can see by the numbers the 1150's will be at their max to run the crank HP I want. The 1600cc have plenty to spare but I hear Idle is impossible. I know Darryl's Race car idles. Does anyone have more input on this? 1600cc's seem like the way to go.

(850cc/10.5=81lb/hr x.90(duty cycle)/.65=112HP/injector x 4=448HP)
(1150cc/10.5=109lb/hr x.90(duty cycle)/.65=151HP/injector x 4=606HP)
(1600cc/10.5=152lb/hr x.75(duty cycle)/.65=175HP/injector x 4=701HP)

[wortdog]

I've heard a couple guys say they've used 1600's with a stock ECU and it idles mostly ok. The only way to get the 1600's perfect is to run a standalone that can control low impedence injectors without a resistor box.

The 1600's are cheap because they're very commonly used with methanol setups, so more people buy them than 1150's.

[ncgalant]

Yea, that car ran out of fuel faster than anything I could have ever imagined. 11.5-11:1 A/F with the duty at 100%. With the fuel pressure higher there was more in it, but the pump couldn't keep the pressure up. The A/F would start to climb to 12:1 past 5500.

I've got the double MAF hz logging on and it pegs 3214 by 4500 rpms.