The TALON, Running Project Report Options

[awdnot2]

Since its oringed it may last forever. How high are you going to torque it?

[awd4kicks]

Yes, considering the broken cylinder head had the O-rings and the stocker wont i'd say it's chancy. Keep in mind the deck surface of the cylinder head was imperfect when I blew out the Cometic. Plus it's been documented that many have had problems sealing up their Cometics due to surfaces that are not smooth enough.

So there is a slim chance this thing may work for a few runs, maybe all day, and on the outside a couple weeks. Either way it will be there and once I get the race head fixed I will switch them back.

[awd4kicks]

Torque = 120ft/lbs

[awdnot2]

Oh yeah thats right. The temp head it not o-ringed

[JMoushon]

Marcus- Call me when you know what time you are going to do the work. I somehow lost your #, if you can believe that. I'll gladly come out and help the process. (or just watch and drool.)

[awd4kicks]

Update time...

Ok I got the cylinder head back from Kalina with three new Farrerea Stainless valves and one new guide. They also touched up the seats in a quick and affordable fashion.

I came to the conclusion (educated guess) that the problem occurred by one of the original lifters collapsing in the head under high stress allowing the rocker arm to dislodge and get caught up side ways between the cam and the valve at the wrong time.

So to help protect my investment I ordered all new 3G lifters from JNZ to replace the original 1G's along with a new stock head gasket (I love the O-ringed head). I couldn't bring myself to purchase all new rockers, but Rob set me up with a decent used set that I was able to replace the damaged rocker with.

As usual I couldn't leave well enough alone and sent more of my hard-earned cash to Forced Performance for the FP3 cams. To get them dialed in correctly I purchased the cheapest adjustable cam gears I could find from our friendly AMS people (Fidanzas ).

Everything went together nicely and it was running by Saturday afternoon. I managed to get out and about that night to test out the new (untuned set-up). The exhaust note is a bit louder and 'Brappy' if there is such a thing. These cams are made for mid range power and it shows even in the untuned stage. Low-end power to mid comes on with the most minute accelerator input. And when the engine is rev-matched properly on take-off it has all the intentions of a beast. Very satisfying in that respect.

I still need a new oxygen sensor VERY badly as any cruising speed below 3000 RPM initiates a lot of knock with any load presented that is not corrected with the accelerator and higher RPM's. This problem also leads to VERY long lag when the throttle is engaged while in the knock and little to no timing.

I hope to get a new chip burned from NCgalant soon and I need to get the cams dialed in. Even though they felt very good, there is a noticeable hint of the engine having to work against itself to rev up. This and the knock have not helped issues.

All that being said I did find a newer EVO bottom feeding on a beat-up 80's Camaro that wasn't worth his time. After witnessing his actions and intent, I eased up beside him and allowed him to stretch his legs on something more worthy of his time. Even though I remained in forth gear his initial 2 ft lead was immediately erased as I let the turbo wind up and made him chase me through a bit of fifth. I wasn't pulling bus lengths on him like I would have liked to, but he was falling back by car lengths at a rapid rate. After slowing down and finding another clear spot we again went from the high gear role. He had his share of the stretch, obviously out of breath and it was over. On the slow down he pulled up beside with the usual comment... Yeah 'I'm just stock' he said. He was a good guy and obviously excited as he stated that the Talon is fast, but I made sure he knew I didn't want any part of him in the game of turning corners. We parted ways and I went home.

More to come...

[awd4kicks]

A new Denso Oxygen sensor has been ordered from MachV that will also handle leaded fuel better.

Are you about ready for some tuning time NCGalant?

[AWD DSM 1]

I give you 3 days til it's broke again.... just kidding ODT! Glad to hear it's back on the road.

[awd4kicks]

What makes you so optomistic about this time?

[awd4kicks]

Hmmm... You were more right than you may have know Rob.

The good news is I got my aftermarket oil cooler installed. All I can say is, what a fit! It looks great, all the lines are tight and dry, and the cooler is mounted securely. Alls that was required for a good fit and finish was a little tweaking an triming on the driver side splash guards.

In the process I found that my T-belt seemed a little on the loose side so I pulled it all apart and sugged everything up. That's all good now too.

Still planning on getting the new O2 sensor in Monday.

However I run into another MAJOR hurdle to try and overcome before SCDC. I need to make some calls Monday to see if anything can be done, but right now it just looks like I'm throwing good money after bad into some sort of curse. We will see.

[akamiami]

keep at it buddy and don't loose heart. if I can help with parts or whatever just let me know.

[awd4kicks]

...short update.

Long story short. Turbo is back in the car now. Forced Performance covered it under warranty. They ROCK!

I have installed a new O2 sensor good for leaded fuel, a new 180 Thermostat, and a Fluidine aluminum radiator from Road Race.

Things are back on track now for the time being and running cool the whole time. Time to get one more tune on the EPROM before I take it to the dyno to dial in the cam gears. Where are ya NCGalant?

[ncgalant]

I'll give you a call after church. Maybe we can get together tonight

[AWD DSM 1]

If your going to be in the area sometime, let me know, I could use a quick re-check of my tune now that my boost leaks are plugged.

[awd4kicks]

Between NC & I brainstorming along with his MAD hacking skills and chip burning hardware we have been able to make the Talon pull like a CRAZY TRAIN. 17 degrees of timing churning 25-26PSI through 2.5 liters of Mad Mitsubishi resulting in a 11.8-12.5 AFR and wicked pull.

As usual, tuning for daily driving is much more difficult and time consuming than WOT tuning. We are still fighting full knock at the drop of a hat ANY and EVERY time the throttle is between 20-30% and the RPM's are at 3400RPM or less. Sometimes it is not as persistent down hills, but any uphill load with no addition of throttle results in this rediculous behavior. We've pulled timing, Added fuel to the tune of 10.8:1 with no results. Then went the other way since this lack of timing is dumping all kinds of heat into the Turbine housing. With more timing there is still full knock, but now the car soesn't fall totally on it's face. I have a hard time believing that there should be any knock below 3400RPM, with no boost, cruising at 20-30% throttle. It's rediculous.

Does anyone have any ideas or have you heard of this? This knock goes away as soon as I dip into throttle and boost. There is vertually no knock at WOT. I also don't believe it's resonance since it is often initiated by load like a VERY slight incline on a highway you are trying to drive 55-60MPH on.

She is running though. Freeway and WOT are awesome.

[awd4kicks]

UPDATE: I'm getting a new chip from NC tonight that I will try that may curb the problem. Even if it does the origin is still present. Let me know what you think.

[The Iron Goat]

You could be dealing with a sort of electrical "resonance", though. When those conditions exist, the signal voltages in several places could cause some sort of induction into the knock sensor circuit. Wild idea, but I'm stupid, so that's all I got.

[wortdog]

I had the exact same problem, I just set my ECU up to ignore knock when its not seeing any boost and turn down the cruise timing a degree or two. I assume that's what NC is doing.

[awd4kicks]

I had the exact same problem, I just set my ECU up to ignore knock when its not seeing any boost and turn down the cruise timing a degree or two. I assume that's what NC is doing.

Yeah Wort, He is thinking along the same lines. He is basicly makeing the retard map the same as the Timing map so there is no retard when it is in that range.

[awd4kicks]

You could be dealing with a sort of electrical "resonance", though.  When those conditions exist, the signal voltages in several places could cause some sort of induction into the knock sensor circuit.  Wild idea, but I'm stupid, so that's all I got.

That is possible IronGoat, though I wouldn't know how to go about tracking it down and curring it. At the same time, I would be happy if it were just a 'Phantom' situation caused by electrical interferance or resonance.