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Oct 8 2007, 09:52 AM
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#141
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![]() Eats and sleeps DSM jargin. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,995 Joined: 27-November 04 From: Yates City IL Member No.: 389 |
I'll check that.
The only other things I can think of that would cause no boost: -compressor wheel loose on shaft, somehow nut backed off? -flapper cracked or fell off -------------------- 92 Eagle Talon TSI AWD "The Black Golfball" How fast can a 14B go???
91 Chevy C1500 "Problem Child" **SOLD** 01 Impala DD 07 Trailblazer Wife's new DD Cars run on blood, sweat, and horsepower... Without the first two, you can't get the last" SOB Racing "Sitting On Blocks" |
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Oct 8 2007, 03:26 PM
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#142
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![]() Eats and sleeps DSM jargin. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,995 Joined: 27-November 04 From: Yates City IL Member No.: 389 |
Pulled the lower turbo drain pipe---no oil in the bucket with engine running.
Pulled the turbo supply oil banjo bolt on the head---barely anything, just a dribble Oil pump is working, shows plenty of oil pressure on the Autometer gauge. I don't hear the lifter clanking so oil is pressurizing the lifters. I'm going to pull the oil galley plugs on the front and passenger side of the head and run some engine cleaning brushing down them and see if their plugged. So the turbo probably junk due to oil starvation Hopefully enough oil made it to the head to prevent any damage -------------------- 92 Eagle Talon TSI AWD "The Black Golfball" How fast can a 14B go???
91 Chevy C1500 "Problem Child" **SOLD** 01 Impala DD 07 Trailblazer Wife's new DD Cars run on blood, sweat, and horsepower... Without the first two, you can't get the last" SOB Racing "Sitting On Blocks" |
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Oct 8 2007, 06:22 PM
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#143
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![]() Eats and sleeps DSM jargin. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,995 Joined: 27-November 04 From: Yates City IL Member No.: 389 |
Pulled some of the oil gallery plugs, they seem to be clean. Removed the valve cover and it looked pretty dry. After checked to gallery with a long pick, I blew some shop air into the turbo supply line plug and air/oil came out the oil hole in the lifter and sprayed oil on the rockers.
How much oil pressure should there be at the head? Problem is I can't remember if the lifters where collapsed before or after I blew shop air through...damn! Either way I need to find a blockage between the block and the head. -------------------- 92 Eagle Talon TSI AWD "The Black Golfball" How fast can a 14B go???
91 Chevy C1500 "Problem Child" **SOLD** 01 Impala DD 07 Trailblazer Wife's new DD Cars run on blood, sweat, and horsepower... Without the first two, you can't get the last" SOB Racing "Sitting On Blocks" |
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Oct 10 2007, 10:15 AM
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#144
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![]() Eats and sleeps DSM jargin. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,995 Joined: 27-November 04 From: Yates City IL Member No.: 389 |
I removed the lowest galley plug on the head, where the Head and Block meet. Blew shop air though it and air cam out of the turbo supply as well as the lifters. So the head passages are completely clear.
I left the plug out and turn the motor over after pulling the plugs and the MPI fuse for 30 sec and oil dribbled out that plug. Oil pressure gauge showed 20 psi so the pump was making pressure. Something got to me FUBAR'd at the head/block joint. The gasket looks properly installed...I'm at a loss now. I guess the head come off again. I can't think of anything else to try. On top of it, I think I broke my thumb working on it last night. -------------------- 92 Eagle Talon TSI AWD "The Black Golfball" How fast can a 14B go???
91 Chevy C1500 "Problem Child" **SOLD** 01 Impala DD 07 Trailblazer Wife's new DD Cars run on blood, sweat, and horsepower... Without the first two, you can't get the last" SOB Racing "Sitting On Blocks" |
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Oct 10 2007, 09:05 PM
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#145
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DSMCentral Godfather ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Admin Posts: 3,823 Joined: 10-January 01 From: Washburn Member No.: 26 |
QUOTE (black92_tsi_awd @ Oct 10 2007, 04:15 PM) On top of it, I think I broke my thumb working on it last night. Now that REALLY sucks! -------------------- In Loving memory of David T Crebo
Greatness comes from the most unexpected places! ![]() |
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Oct 11 2007, 06:44 AM
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#146
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Post Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 908 Joined: 7-October 03 From: Chillicothe, IL Member No.: 182 |
from the head the oil should have enough pressure to hit your air filter at idle. Don't ask me how I know this
-------------------- GVR4 866/1000 = the perpetually broken car
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Oct 11 2007, 10:02 AM
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#147
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![]() Eats and sleeps DSM jargin. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,995 Joined: 27-November 04 From: Yates City IL Member No.: 389 |
Yeah I figured the oil flow should be noticable!
I'm going to pull the braided line off my Autometer Oil pressure sender and crank the motor. I figure even the slow cranking of the motor should put out a decent stream, right? If it doesn't flow well, I've got oil pump problems and I'll definintly pull the motor to fully check out the crank and rod bearings. -------------------- 92 Eagle Talon TSI AWD "The Black Golfball" How fast can a 14B go???
91 Chevy C1500 "Problem Child" **SOLD** 01 Impala DD 07 Trailblazer Wife's new DD Cars run on blood, sweat, and horsepower... Without the first two, you can't get the last" SOB Racing "Sitting On Blocks" |
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Oct 11 2007, 11:59 AM
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#148
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Post Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 908 Joined: 7-October 03 From: Chillicothe, IL Member No.: 182 |
QUOTE (black92_tsi_awd @ Oct 11 2007, 10:02 AM) Yeah I figured the oil flow should be noticable! I'm going to pull the braided line off my Autometer Oil pressure sender and crank the motor. I figure even the slow cranking of the motor should put out a decent stream, right? If it doesn't flow well, I've got oil pump problems and I'll definintly pull the motor to fully check out the crank and rod bearings. If you've got the motor out pull the balance shafts while you are there. -------------------- GVR4 866/1000 = the perpetually broken car
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Oct 11 2007, 12:24 PM
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#149
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![]() Eats and sleeps DSM jargin. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,995 Joined: 27-November 04 From: Yates City IL Member No.: 389 |
Balance shafts came out on the first partial rebuild.
-------------------- 92 Eagle Talon TSI AWD "The Black Golfball" How fast can a 14B go???
91 Chevy C1500 "Problem Child" **SOLD** 01 Impala DD 07 Trailblazer Wife's new DD Cars run on blood, sweat, and horsepower... Without the first two, you can't get the last" SOB Racing "Sitting On Blocks" |
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Oct 15 2007, 08:28 PM
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#150
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![]() Eats and sleeps DSM jargin. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,995 Joined: 27-November 04 From: Yates City IL Member No.: 389 |
Worked on the car some Sunday. I pulled the braided line out of the oil filter housing for my Autometer oil pressure gauge and cranked the car over (just on the starter) and a nice steady stream of oil came out. So I imagine the bottom end was getting oil.
Tore the turbo out and took it apart. The bearing are completely junk and so it looks like the cartridge is too. I put the old bearings in it from when I rebuilt it (it didn't have any shaft play then) and you can see the bushing have slop in the cartridge. The turbo would probably work but is definitely not a long term solution. At this point I need to find a decent 14B center section to at least get her running while I save up for a BIGGER turbo....if anyone got something let me know, I'm still trying to make up my mind whether to pull the whole damn engine to check everything vs just pulling the head and trying to find the oiling problem with the engine in the car. -------------------- 92 Eagle Talon TSI AWD "The Black Golfball" How fast can a 14B go???
91 Chevy C1500 "Problem Child" **SOLD** 01 Impala DD 07 Trailblazer Wife's new DD Cars run on blood, sweat, and horsepower... Without the first two, you can't get the last" SOB Racing "Sitting On Blocks" |
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Oct 16 2007, 05:41 AM
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#151
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DSMCentral Godfather ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Admin Posts: 3,823 Joined: 10-January 01 From: Washburn Member No.: 26 |
The engine is at least twice as easy to work on outside of the car. That being said I would make sure you have exhausted all other in car possibilities before pulling it.
-------------------- In Loving memory of David T Crebo
Greatness comes from the most unexpected places! ![]() |
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Nov 1 2007, 08:49 AM
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#152
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![]() Eats and sleeps DSM jargin. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,995 Joined: 27-November 04 From: Yates City IL Member No.: 389 |
Haven't done much to the car lately. Kind of recharging my batteries and working on a mini-chopper bicycle for my daughter.
I did do another compression test to check the cylinder that was dead before. Came back 135-135-140-140 where the previous check was 142-130-0-140. Kind of strange that one cylinder dropped and another picked up compression. Hopefully I'll start pulling it apart this week. I'd like to get it out before the temps drop too much. I did see this interesting post on tuners Intake Manifold Trying to add up material cost and see if it's alot cheaper that buying one. I've got a friend with a TIG and and oven to heat the aluminum. I doubt it would help a 14b setup, but should be good to a 16G upgrade or bigger -------------------- 92 Eagle Talon TSI AWD "The Black Golfball" How fast can a 14B go???
91 Chevy C1500 "Problem Child" **SOLD** 01 Impala DD 07 Trailblazer Wife's new DD Cars run on blood, sweat, and horsepower... Without the first two, you can't get the last" SOB Racing "Sitting On Blocks" |
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Nov 12 2007, 03:16 PM
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#153
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![]() Eats and sleeps DSM jargin. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,995 Joined: 27-November 04 From: Yates City IL Member No.: 389 |
Here's something I've been working on. My ProE skills are rusty but it's getting there. If I can manage to get some after hours CFD done at work I might take a look at it.
Been researching the internet for recommended plenum volume and runners length. Manifold 1 Manifold 2 I know it's easier to buy an intake, but I may be able to build one for $200. It might not be as good as a big name intake but I figure with a little research it should be better than stock. -------------------- 92 Eagle Talon TSI AWD "The Black Golfball" How fast can a 14B go???
91 Chevy C1500 "Problem Child" **SOLD** 01 Impala DD 07 Trailblazer Wife's new DD Cars run on blood, sweat, and horsepower... Without the first two, you can't get the last" SOB Racing "Sitting On Blocks" |
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Nov 12 2007, 04:26 PM
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#154
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![]() Post Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 729 Joined: 19-September 02 From: New Baden, IL Member No.: 7 |
Drooool... ProE pictures...
Sorry... I'm a nerd. I like the slight taper on the runners from circular to ellipsoidal. Would that increase flow because it's somewhat divergant? or does that matter? I'm not an ME and I didn't enjoy fluid mechanics much -------------------- -The original (member) 007. Stop looking at me Spy!!
-98 S-10 P/U creepin' low on stock 15s!! -You come off just a little more intelligent if you know how to spell the insults in addition to saying them |
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Nov 12 2007, 10:40 PM
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#155
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Post Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 626 Joined: 25-September 02 From: Urbana, IL Member No.: 19 |
I have a JMF intake with a melted corner from the fire. Maybe you could take all the measurements off it you want in return for cutting out the 'melted' part and welding in a section of sheet for me?
-------------------- Eric Wort
87 White Buick Turbo 'T' (11.71 @ 116.5, 1.61 60ft, slipping trans) 92 Teal Eagle Talon TSi AWD (burn victim) |
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Nov 13 2007, 07:49 AM
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#156
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![]() Eats and sleeps DSM jargin. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,995 Joined: 27-November 04 From: Yates City IL Member No.: 389 |
Wort
I don't necessarily want to copy a design. But I am curious to look at existing design Plenum and runner lengths as well as the ration of their volumes. These dictate what rpm band the engine makes it's power. Send me a picture of the melted intake. I'll talk to my buddy that does the aluminum welding. Jbone The flow shouldn't increase because the cross sectional area is the same. If it was a true taper like I've seen on some intakes, it would change the flow. -------------------- 92 Eagle Talon TSI AWD "The Black Golfball" How fast can a 14B go???
91 Chevy C1500 "Problem Child" **SOLD** 01 Impala DD 07 Trailblazer Wife's new DD Cars run on blood, sweat, and horsepower... Without the first two, you can't get the last" SOB Racing "Sitting On Blocks" |
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Nov 16 2007, 01:33 PM
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#157
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![]() Eats and sleeps DSM jargin. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,995 Joined: 27-November 04 From: Yates City IL Member No.: 389 |
From what I'm reading....and my head hurts now...
Tapering the runners increases velocity (venturi effect) which seems not to be affect by a forced induction setup. But too much velocity isn't a good thing, <75 m/s is recommended by one source Longer the runner, the better the low end torque Shorter runners push the hp peak higher in the rpm range 5-6" runners seem to be the sweet spot for street manifold Plenum volume also affects the HP peak -Larger the plenum, the higher the HP peak and low end response suffers. Running a huge plenum on a car that spend most of it's time in th 5-6K range is useless. I've read estimates of plenum volume 10% more than engine CID to 2 1/2 times the volume of the 4 runners. -Bellmouths inside the plenum are highly recommended. My rambling only hope to stir conversation...I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night and now I design manifolds! -------------------- 92 Eagle Talon TSI AWD "The Black Golfball" How fast can a 14B go???
91 Chevy C1500 "Problem Child" **SOLD** 01 Impala DD 07 Trailblazer Wife's new DD Cars run on blood, sweat, and horsepower... Without the first two, you can't get the last" SOB Racing "Sitting On Blocks" |
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Nov 26 2007, 06:04 PM
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#158
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![]() Eats and sleeps DSM jargin. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,995 Joined: 27-November 04 From: Yates City IL Member No.: 389 |
Finally got the engine apart Sunday. The head gasket was correct and had the teardrop cutout in the front left stud position. Spinning the oil pump with a drill resulted in a 1-2' fountain of oil coming out of the hole in the top of the block. So the pump in good and the block passages are clear.
The head passages are clear. So the only thing different is the ARP studs.... I'm going to try lightly bolting down the head with the old gasket and put the stock head bolts back and see if the oil start flowing. I can't think of anything else, yet why the hell would the studs cause that??? -------------------- 92 Eagle Talon TSI AWD "The Black Golfball" How fast can a 14B go???
91 Chevy C1500 "Problem Child" **SOLD** 01 Impala DD 07 Trailblazer Wife's new DD Cars run on blood, sweat, and horsepower... Without the first two, you can't get the last" SOB Racing "Sitting On Blocks" |
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Nov 27 2007, 07:20 PM
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#159
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![]() Eats and sleeps DSM jargin. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,995 Joined: 27-November 04 From: Yates City IL Member No.: 389 |
After installing the rebuilt head. The oil pressure gauge always showed normal pressures. 100 psi when cold, 50-75 cruising down the road. I don't remember exactly but i don't think it ever dropped down to 10-15 at idle through.
With the engine warm and idling, there was no oil flow out of the banjo bolt hole when removed. There wasn't much, if any flow to the head since the moly lube was still on the ARP head stud nuts after the engine ran for 15-20 min while diagnosing the no boost problem....which turned out to be the turbo eating itself due to no oil flow. The oil pump was brand new, new case and gear when the engine was rebuilt in 4/06. I guess it could have injested something... Hopefully I'll bolt the head back on with the stock bolts tomorrow and at least eliminate that possible option. I need to drop the pan and check for any obvious damage. -------------------- 92 Eagle Talon TSI AWD "The Black Golfball" How fast can a 14B go???
91 Chevy C1500 "Problem Child" **SOLD** 01 Impala DD 07 Trailblazer Wife's new DD Cars run on blood, sweat, and horsepower... Without the first two, you can't get the last" SOB Racing "Sitting On Blocks" |
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Nov 27 2007, 09:36 PM
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#160
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![]() Eats and sleeps DSM jargin. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,995 Joined: 27-November 04 From: Yates City IL Member No.: 389 |
Blew shop air through them after removing the turbo supply and then the galley plugs above the head/block connection. Air/oil came out through the lifers.
I imagine the galley could be partially blocked, but there would still be more than a dribble flowing. -------------------- 92 Eagle Talon TSI AWD "The Black Golfball" How fast can a 14B go???
91 Chevy C1500 "Problem Child" **SOLD** 01 Impala DD 07 Trailblazer Wife's new DD Cars run on blood, sweat, and horsepower... Without the first two, you can't get the last" SOB Racing "Sitting On Blocks" |
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