 Project Black Golfball-plans for 2007 |
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 Nov 28 2007, 09:02 PM
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#161
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 Eats and sleeps DSM jargin.  Group: Members Posts: 1,995 Joined: 27-November 04 From: Yates City IL Member No.: 389  |
Well it looks like the ARP studs is the cause.
I mounted the head with the stock bolts torqued to 40 ft'lbs so the oil wouldn't squirt out between the head and the block. Spun the oil pump with cordless drill and oil streamed out of the turbo feed hole and out of the lifters. I swapped the head bolt that's in the oiling path to the head or a ARP stud, and....just a dribble of oil out the turbo feed and no oil flowing out the lifters!!! WTF! I measured the diameter of the fasteners: ARP studs .469" Stock head bolts varyed between .436 and .442" The increase in OD of the ARP studs reduce the available flow cross section but why would I be the only one in history to have this problem??? -------------------- 92 Eagle Talon TSI AWD "The Black Golfball" How fast can a 14B go???
91 Chevy C1500 "Problem Child" **SOLD** 01 Impala DD 07 Trailblazer Wife's new DD Cars run on blood, sweat, and horsepower... Without the first two, you can't get the last" SOB Racing "Sitting On Blocks" |
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Nov 29 2007, 11:09 AM
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#162
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 Zen Master DSM Group: Moderators Posts: 3,008 Joined: 10-January 01 From: in front of you Member No.: 5 |
Almost sounds like you got the wrong studs. I'd call ARP and ask them what their measurement specs are for the studs and see if they match what you have.
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Nov 29 2007, 09:09 PM
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#163
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DSMCentral Godfather Group: Admin Posts: 3,823 Joined: 10-January 01 From: Washburn Member No.: 26 |
I'm pretty sure that the ARP studs I have are larger in diameter than the original bolts. Maybe the head casting is a little off or there is some build-up of some sort in the oil galley?
-------------------- In Loving memory of David T Crebo
Greatness comes from the most unexpected places!  |
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Nov 29 2007, 09:48 PM
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#164
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Eats and sleeps DSM jargin. Group: Members Posts: 1,995 Joined: 27-November 04 From: Yates City IL Member No.: 389 |
I'm going to call ARP tomorrow, it can't hurt.
The head passages are clean. I checked. I'll try measuring the head passage opening after I pull it off again and compare the measurments to the old head (.550") I have. Thanks for the ideas guys! Hey Marcus...who did your SIG picture. Pretty slick! 
-------------------- 92 Eagle Talon TSI AWD "The Black Golfball" How fast can a 14B go???
91 Chevy C1500 "Problem Child" **SOLD** 01 Impala DD 07 Trailblazer Wife's new DD Cars run on blood, sweat, and horsepower... Without the first two, you can't get the last" SOB Racing "Sitting On Blocks" |
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Nov 29 2007, 10:05 PM
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#165
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DSMCentral Godfather Group: Admin Posts: 3,823 Joined: 10-January 01 From: Washburn Member No.: 26 |
FoxEm on CSS did it... They've got a sig thread going where they are using their creativeness to help everyone out.
-------------------- In Loving memory of David T Crebo
Greatness comes from the most unexpected places! |
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Nov 30 2007, 08:22 AM
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#166
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 Eats and sleeps DSM jargin. Group: Members Posts: 1,754 Joined: 25-June 04 From: 61554 Member No.: 314 |
QUOTE (awd4kicks @ Nov 29 2007, 10:05 PM) FoxEm on CSS did it... They've got a sig thread going where they are using their creativeness to help everyone out. they do good work too
-------------------- ┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐
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Nov 30 2007, 10:34 AM
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#167
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Eats and sleeps DSM jargin. Group: Members Posts: 1,995 Joined: 27-November 04 From: Yates City IL Member No.: 389 |
Can anybody verfiy what is the correct stud kit for a 92 6 bolt? I mean what they actually used and didn't have a problem with.
I called ARP and explained the whole story and they recommended the undercut studs to allow for the oil flow...but their own catalog says the undercut is to "equalize the stretch of the bolts" not for oil flow. The guy sounded like he was fishing...not a great tech call. He asked who sold them, I said a local machine shop, he said you should have called us... Their catalog states for 93 and earlier m12 207-4201 12 pt nuts (what I have) 207-4701 12 pt nuts with u/c studs -------------------- 92 Eagle Talon TSI AWD "The Black Golfball" How fast can a 14B go???
91 Chevy C1500 "Problem Child" **SOLD** 01 Impala DD 07 Trailblazer Wife's new DD Cars run on blood, sweat, and horsepower... Without the first two, you can't get the last" SOB Racing "Sitting On Blocks" |
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Nov 30 2007, 07:14 PM
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#168
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DSMCentral Godfather Group: Admin Posts: 3,823 Joined: 10-January 01 From: Washburn Member No.: 26 |
Mine were not undercut.
-------------------- In Loving memory of David T Crebo
Greatness comes from the most unexpected places! |
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Dec 1 2007, 11:51 AM
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#169
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 Post Master Group: Members Posts: 626 Joined: 25-September 02 From: Urbana, IL Member No.: 19 |
I've used three sets of standard cut ARP's without issue as well, very strange. How did the measurement compare?
-------------------- Eric Wort
87 White Buick Turbo 'T' (11.71 @ 116.5, 1.61 60ft, slipping trans) 92 Teal Eagle Talon TSi AWD (burn victim) |
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Dec 3 2007, 08:13 PM
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#170
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Eats and sleeps DSM jargin. Group: Members Posts: 1,995 Joined: 27-November 04 From: Yates City IL Member No.: 389 |
Looks like I solved the mystery. The new head's head bolts holes are drilled undersize (around .473). On the old head a 1/2" drill bit will pass through all holes. On the new head, only 1 bolt hole will pass a 1/2" drill bit! The stud where the oil flows though is counterdrilled to .550 the same on both heads but the hole is too tight where the cross drilled galley intersects.
New head, you can see the ridge:  Old head, minimal ridge:  This would explain the lack of oil flow, I've got a .469 head stud in a .473 hole!! Not much flow going through that. This would also explain why the head was so hard to put on!! Almost no clearance. I'll call Mullvains to see how much they charge to drill out the holes. I'm not sure I could accurately drill them out with a cordless. I need to first check the cam bearing clearance and make sure the lack of oil didn't FUBAR the head. I can't beleive the manufacturing process would be this far off. -------------------- 92 Eagle Talon TSI AWD "The Black Golfball" How fast can a 14B go???
91 Chevy C1500 "Problem Child" **SOLD** 01 Impala DD 07 Trailblazer Wife's new DD Cars run on blood, sweat, and horsepower... Without the first two, you can't get the last" SOB Racing "Sitting On Blocks" |
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Dec 3 2007, 09:50 PM
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#171
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DSMCentral Godfather Group: Admin Posts: 3,823 Joined: 10-January 01 From: Washburn Member No.: 26 |
Wow...That took some detective work. Good find Chris.
Is there any chance this is something other than a turbo head? Not sure if there is any good explanation for the smaller holes? -------------------- In Loving memory of David T Crebo
Greatness comes from the most unexpected places! |
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Dec 3 2007, 10:01 PM
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#172
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Post Master Group: Members Posts: 626 Joined: 25-September 02 From: Urbana, IL Member No.: 19 |
Is it a 1G 7-bolt head? They have smaller bolt holes.
-------------------- Eric Wort
87 White Buick Turbo 'T' (11.71 @ 116.5, 1.61 60ft, slipping trans) 92 Teal Eagle Talon TSi AWD (burn victim) |
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Dec 4 2007, 08:15 AM
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#173
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Eats and sleeps DSM jargin. Group: Members Posts: 1,995 Joined: 27-November 04 From: Yates City IL Member No.: 389 |
I thought 7 bolt heads had different port sizes? Still strange that one head bolt hole in the head was the correct size.
What are the differances between the 6 and 7 Bolt heads? -------------------- 92 Eagle Talon TSI AWD "The Black Golfball" How fast can a 14B go???
91 Chevy C1500 "Problem Child" **SOLD** 01 Impala DD 07 Trailblazer Wife's new DD Cars run on blood, sweat, and horsepower... Without the first two, you can't get the last" SOB Racing "Sitting On Blocks" |
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Dec 4 2007, 08:26 AM
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#174
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Zen Master DSM Group: Moderators Posts: 3,008 Joined: 10-January 01 From: in front of you Member No.: 5 |
I think its just the 2G heads that have the smaller intake ports.
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Dec 4 2007, 08:51 PM
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#175
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Eats and sleeps DSM jargin. Group: Members Posts: 1,995 Joined: 27-November 04 From: Yates City IL Member No.: 389 |
Mullvains will drill out the holes, by their hourly rate ($50). They said they'd have to look at the head to give me an estimate.
I guess I'll have them check the head for flatness. I can't imagine it's warped from just a couple heat cycles.... 
-------------------- 92 Eagle Talon TSI AWD "The Black Golfball" How fast can a 14B go???
91 Chevy C1500 "Problem Child" **SOLD** 01 Impala DD 07 Trailblazer Wife's new DD Cars run on blood, sweat, and horsepower... Without the first two, you can't get the last" SOB Racing "Sitting On Blocks" |
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