Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

> The TALON, Running Project Report
awd4kicks
post Mar 18 2006, 02:11 PM
Post #101


DSMCentral Godfather
********

Group: Admin
Posts: 3,823
Joined: 10-January 01
From: Washburn
Member No.: 26



I'm going to start my version of the DSMCentral project report others have been doing for a while now.

There is a lot of history that can be filled in later, but I'd like to start with the current upgrade path to date. In that vein I'd like to start of with the math or 'Engineering' if I may be so bold.

When building up a project car I think most of us have found it's best to have a goal in mind, otherwise you will end-up spending more money than necessary and for things that may or may not add to the total package.

The Talon has always been a work in progress for better acceleration with a heavy lean toward handling. I love to drag race, and I really like to autocross, and have a dream to be a road race driver burried in the back of my mind under all of the day to day responsibilites. This mentality has given the Talon a basic strut and coil over set-up with a front-to-rear spool that makes handling a breeze and makes a good roller for what ever power plant I can afford. With that in mind my upgrade goal is driven to increase acceleration.

How do you measure acceleration when you love to drag race? 1/4 mile ET's!

GOALS
10.8-11.3 sec. - Tentative 1/4 mile goal (Traction, Driving, breakage and planet alignment at perfect levels obviously laugh.gif )

3280Lb's - Near stock weight of vehicle with driver

460 - 550HP - Approximate wheel HP required via 1/4 mile calculator

555 - 663HP - Approximate crank HP required assuming 17% drivetrain loss

SUPPORTING REQUIREMENTS

FUEL
620HP - Max Wlaboro 255HP Fuel pump supply figuring 30psi boost in a 25% safety margin (10% options &.6 BSFC?)
(255lph/3.785=67gph x 7.25=485lbs/hr / .625=776 max HP / 1.25=622 HP)
(Correction 210lph/3.785=55gph x 7.25=399lbs/hr / .625=638 max HP / 1.25=510 HP)
(Optional #1? 210lph/3.785=55gph x 7.25=399lbs/hr / .625=638 max HP / 1.10=580 HP)
(Optional #2? 210lph/3.785=55gph x 7.25=399lbs/hr / .600=665 max HP / 1.10=604 HP)
(Optional #3? 210lph/3.785=55gph x 7.25=399lbs/hr / .560=712 max HP / 1.15=619 HP)
(Optional #4? 210lph/3.785=55gph x 7.25=399lbs/hr / .560=712 max HP / 1.10=647 HP)


600LPH - Fuel volume/flow of (Stevetek style) 6AN DSM fuel system @ 60psi
(2.35 times allowable volume than pump can supply)

488HP – Fuel supply through (4) 850cc injectors at stock pressure
(850cc/10.5=81lb/hr x.90(duty cycle)/.60=122HP/injector x 4=488HP)
(850cc/10.5=81lb/hr x.90(duty cycle)/.56=130HP/injector x 4=520HP)
(950cc/10.5=90lb/hr x.90(duty cycle)/.56=145HP/injector x 4=580HP)
(1000cc/10.5=95lb/hr x.90(duty cycle)/.56=152HP/injector x 4=608HP)
(1600cc/10.5=152lb/hr x.80(duty cycle)/.60=203HP/injector x 4=812HP)
(1600cc/10.5=152lb/hr x.90(duty cycle)/.56=244HP/injector x 4=976HP)
Optional injector sizes listed - HP amounts still questionably low dont they.

After running out of injector at 20psi and my base fuel pressure cranked up to 48psi I think it's safe to say that these calculation are much more correct when they are conservative. In light of this I have rerun the numbers using ,65 as the lowest BSFC possible to keep the HP numbers realistic. (850cc/10.5=81lb/hr x.90(duty cycle)/.65=112HP/injector x 4=448HP)
(1150cc/10.5=109lb/hr x.90(duty cycle)/.65=151HP/injector x 4=606HP)
(1600cc/10.5=152lb/hr x.75(duty cycle)/.65=175HP/injector x 4=701HP)


*This is obviously a questionable level. I need to recheck the figures but do plan on upping the fuel pressure if it will help sufficiently. With the same math except 100% duty cycle my stock 450 injectors figure out to support 288HP which figures pretty close to where I was with the 12.6 quarter mile runs. 850cc is 1.95 times bigger than 450s which I would like to say equates to 503HP at stock fuel pressures and 90% duty cycle.
Hmmm…can anyone shed better light on this? I would think 850cc injectors would be more than enough for 600crank HP, but it may be wishful thinking.

TURBO
503WHP/428WTQ – Max power applied with FP3052 ball bearing turbo on 93 octane
(See dyno chart in my garage – obviously is not my dyno run but a very similar build-up. This would figure up to 603HP and 515ft/lb’s of torque at the crank at 17% drive train loss. )

CLUTCH
400ft/lbs – Approximate holding power of existing 2600Pressure plate with street disk
500ft/lbs – Approximate holding power of ACT 2600 pressure plate with 6 puck disk
600ft/lbs – Approximate holding power of ACT 2900 pressure plate with street disk

MISC Support mods
1G EPROM ECU – remapped for 850cc injectors by NCGalant
Victory Performance Street front mount with 2.5” aluminum piping
FRH Intake manifold
Stage 2 ported head w/ .5mm oversized valves & dual valve springs w/ titanium retainers
Ported 2G exhaust manifold
Tial 44mm External waste gate to external dump
Tial Blow-off valve
3.5” GM MAF and 2.5” Dejontool blow through piping
GM MAF translator for fine tuning
TRE front to rear differential spool in an otherwise stock but fresh 1993 transmission
Koni Yellow struts and shocks with Eibach coilover springs set at about 1.5” drop
13lb. 16” RX7 rims wrapped with Sumitomo P225/50R16 fatties
Light weight battery

Let me know if anyone has more info on the products I have listed or input on this project. A lot of my numbers are approximate so don’t get too nitpicky on me. biggthumpup.gif[/COLOR]
Attached File(s)
Attached File  93octane_full.jpg ( 0bytes ) Number of downloads: 0
 


--------------------
In Loving memory of David T Crebo
Greatness comes from the most unexpected places!
user posted image
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
- awd4kicks   The TALON   Mar 18 2006, 02:11 PM
- - awd4kicks   Interesting to compare my current graph to the gra...   Aug 13 2006, 04:55 PM
- - awd4kicks   As usual. 3 steps forward and 2 steps back. I fe...   Aug 28 2006, 09:18 PM
- - 99Spyder   All I have to say is... damn!   Aug 28 2006, 09:26 PM
- - akamiami   Crebo, you're remarkably persistent man. It t...   Aug 28 2006, 11:39 PM
- - JBone   QUOTE (akamiami @ Aug 28 2006, 11:39 PM)Crebo...   Aug 29 2006, 12:19 AM
- - awd4kicks   Yeah that or I'm stupid and stuborn. Actuall...   Aug 29 2006, 06:43 AM
- - AWD DSM 1   I can honestly say that I would have thrown in the...   Aug 29 2006, 07:48 AM
- - haunter   QUOTE (awd4kicks @ Aug 29 2006, 06:43 AM)Sure...   Aug 29 2006, 08:16 AM
- - The Iron Goat   Let's be honest here, Marcus. Much like the f...   Aug 29 2006, 08:35 AM
- - mitsu90   you need a 2.0 or a 2.4 crank?? got the one in the...   Aug 29 2006, 08:45 AM
- - awd4kicks   Thanks guys.. Mitsu, I need a 2.4 crank. Kris (a...   Aug 29 2006, 11:47 AM
- - awd4kicks   BTW - Getting a semi-powerfull rear wheel drive to...   Aug 29 2006, 12:41 PM
- - haunter   QUOTE (awd4kicks @ Aug 29 2006, 12:41 PM)BTW ...   Aug 29 2006, 08:32 PM
- - awd4kicks   Polished the 2.4 Hyundai crank. Installed it in t...   Sep 12 2006, 11:24 AM
- - black92_tsi_awd   I assume you'll be ready by Vicary day...   Sep 12 2006, 11:44 AM
- - awd4kicks   I'm shooting for it... Just depends on if the ...   Sep 12 2006, 11:48 AM
- - black92_tsi_awd   RE: The TALON   Sep 12 2006, 12:47 PM
- - awd4kicks   I've been sick all through the weekend. Just ...   Sep 20 2006, 07:04 AM
- - turbohcar   QUOTE (awd4kicks @ Sep 20 2006, 07:04 AM)A st...   Sep 20 2006, 07:14 AM
- - awd4kicks   I believe she was going to go over 35. The gage j...   Sep 20 2006, 08:19 AM
- - black92_tsi_awd   QUOTE (awd4kicks @ Sep 20 2006, 07:04 AM)A ve...   Sep 20 2006, 08:28 AM
- - awd4kicks   Yeah...the crank and bearings are the only major t...   Sep 20 2006, 09:31 AM
- - black92_tsi_awd   You're running poly hard mounts right? That c...   Sep 20 2006, 10:09 AM
- - awd4kicks   Yeah polly mounts, but they areplyably, not rigid ...   Sep 20 2006, 12:23 PM
- - wortdog   2.3's and 2.4's vibrate more than 2.0...   Sep 20 2006, 06:05 PM
- - awd4kicks   Thanks for the reasurance Wotrdog. Like I said ot...   Sep 20 2006, 07:07 PM
- - awd4kicks   Well, I do believe I'm done for the year fella...   Sep 21 2006, 09:19 PM
- - wortdog   Ouch, sorry to hear about that man , kinda makes ...   Sep 21 2006, 09:25 PM
- - JBone   Oh my god, Marcus. I can't believe it. It soun...   Sep 21 2006, 10:57 PM
- - black92_tsi_awd   Damn Marcus! That's a bad deal. I can...   Sep 22 2006, 06:26 AM
- - ncgalant   I don't think I could feel much more sorry for...   Sep 22 2006, 06:44 AM
- - natedogg   That absolutely sucks man. You've put more bl...   Sep 22 2006, 07:00 AM
- - turbohcar   Marcus, Here's a bit of advice from somebody ...   Sep 22 2006, 07:07 AM
- - AWD DSM 1   QUOTE (turbohcar @ Sep 22 2006, 07:07 AM)(don...   Sep 22 2006, 07:45 AM
- - turbohcar   QUOTE (AWD DSM 1 @ Sep 22 2006, 07:45 AM)Hey,...   Sep 22 2006, 07:47 AM
- - mitsu90   you have got to be f*cking kidding me. I can...   Sep 22 2006, 08:39 AM
- - awd4kicks   Thanks guys. And Turbohcar, although your ...   Sep 22 2006, 02:20 PM
- - black92_tsi_awd   QUOTE (awd4kicks @ Sep 22 2006, 02:20 PM)And ...   Sep 22 2006, 02:25 PM
- - BudmannG   Marcus, My dad always told me if the horse throws...   Sep 22 2006, 03:51 PM
- - awd4kicks   INCREDIBLE! I finally looked under the Talon ...   Sep 23 2006, 11:29 AM
- - black92_tsi_awd   Damn Marcus...that's a hell of a pricey engine...   Sep 23 2006, 01:59 PM
- - 99Spyder   Damn Marcus, I leave town for a few days and you g...   Sep 25 2006, 10:06 PM
- - SCCA Stang   QUOTE (BudmannG @ Sep 22 2006, 03:51 PM)Marcu...   Sep 25 2006, 11:54 PM
- - awd4kicks   QUOTE (gsxracer80 @ Sep 26 2006, 05:54 AM)in ...   Sep 26 2006, 06:43 AM
- - awd4kicks   Here is a pic of the carnage NC & I could pick...   Sep 26 2006, 07:25 PM
- - JBone   Commence Rod Explosion Dodging   Sep 26 2006, 08:00 PM
- - awd4kicks   Hahaha...No kidding!   Sep 26 2006, 08:04 PM
- - mitsu90   I want to see pix of were it came out at   Sep 26 2006, 08:05 PM
- - awd4kicks   Ok, I've had some time to cool down and re-eva...   Oct 20 2006, 08:46 AM
- - AWD DSM 1   Sounds like a plan stan...   Oct 20 2006, 09:45 AM
- - turbohcar   Good plan buddy! Lets hope this one stays tog...   Oct 20 2006, 09:51 AM
- - awd4kicks   Well the 'plan' is to make it stay togethe...   Oct 20 2006, 10:00 AM
- - black92_tsi_awd   I'll be the first to call you out then! ...   Oct 20 2006, 10:18 AM
- - ncgalant   I'm going to be PISSED if this one has the sam...   Oct 23 2006, 10:06 AM
- - awd4kicks   Yeah, in the back of my mind I'm hoping that g...   Oct 23 2006, 03:18 PM
- - treydawgs4g63T   WEll, i have to say I am amazed at the amount of t...   Oct 23 2006, 11:28 PM
- - awd4kicks   I should clear that up a bit. I still believe in ...   Oct 24 2006, 06:49 AM
- - awd4kicks   I picked up my fresh Buscher Stage 3 short block M...   Nov 15 2006, 12:52 PM
- - black92_tsi_awd   Excellant! Can't wait to see her on th...   Nov 15 2006, 01:00 PM
- - turbohcar   QUOTE (black92_tsi_awd @ Nov 15 2006, 01:00 P...   Nov 15 2006, 02:15 PM
- - natedogg   Good news, man! Still going with the big turb...   Nov 15 2006, 03:00 PM
- - awd4kicks   Yeah, I'm going to stick with the FP3052 for n...   Nov 15 2006, 03:27 PM
- - turbohcar   I have a prediction that it will spool faster than...   Nov 15 2006, 04:09 PM
- - awd4kicks   QUOTE (mitsu90 @ Sep 27 2006, 02:05 AM)I want...   Nov 27 2006, 12:36 PM
- - awd4kicks   I pulled and partially disassembled the 2.4 over t...   Nov 27 2006, 12:44 PM
- - awd4kicks   #3   Nov 27 2006, 12:45 PM
- - awd4kicks   #4   Nov 27 2006, 12:46 PM
- - awd4kicks   Can you see the scoring and gouging on the bottom ...   Nov 27 2006, 12:47 PM
- - awd4kicks   And it's a shame because this is how beautiful...   Nov 27 2006, 12:50 PM
- - turbohcar   Poor ol' girl. You'll have her ready in n...   Nov 27 2006, 02:08 PM
- - black92_tsi_awd   Damn! You sure do it up big Kicks!   Nov 27 2006, 04:06 PM
- - awd4kicks   Got my Fluidyne radiator repaired already. Kalina...   Dec 1 2006, 10:47 AM
- - JBone   Wow... I just can't believe it... I could n...   Dec 1 2006, 03:10 PM
- - turbohcar   You're back on the right track though Marcus. ...   Dec 1 2006, 05:44 PM
- - black92_tsi_awd   Go, Kicks Go!!!!   Dec 1 2006, 06:20 PM
- - awd4kicks   I'm just now getting the project rolling again...   Jan 3 2007, 10:40 AM
- - awd4kicks   I'm going to stick with the FP3052 unless I fi...   Jan 3 2007, 11:22 AM
- - Mitsu 77   I don't think you will find that to be an issu...   Jan 4 2007, 07:21 AM
- - awd4kicks   I finally got the broken 2.4 stroker totally disas...   Jan 9 2007, 10:34 PM
- - awd4kicks   From the bottom:   Jan 9 2007, 10:35 PM
- - awd4kicks   The pile of broken and beaten parts waiting to go ...   Jan 9 2007, 10:36 PM
- - Kazz5   Ouch. I'm feelin' it.   Jan 10 2007, 09:14 AM
- - ncgalant   When do you think she will be up and running? I c...   Jan 10 2007, 02:45 PM
- - awd4kicks   With the budget going to hell like it has, I'm...   Jan 10 2007, 04:00 PM
- - awd4kicks   The Manley valves are in at Winner's Circle. ...   Jan 13 2007, 09:38 PM
- - awd4kicks   Got word today that I will be able to pick my cyli...   Jan 25 2007, 11:57 AM
- - black92_tsi_awd   JNZ always treated me good too. Got all my rebuil...   Jan 25 2007, 01:25 PM
- - awd4kicks   Almost all the parts are finally in so I can start...   Feb 6 2007, 09:23 PM
- - turbohcar   Schweet!!! Need new tie rods too?? I...   Feb 6 2007, 09:27 PM
- - awd4kicks   QUOTE (turbohcar @ Feb 7 2007, 03:27 AM)Schwe...   Feb 7 2007, 07:44 AM
- - natedogg   Mmmm...shiny.   Feb 7 2007, 08:56 AM
- - awd4kicks   I picked up a set of used HKS 272 cams from Darryl...   Feb 25 2007, 12:04 AM
- - treydawgs4g63T   let me know when you go out with it cause im break...   Feb 25 2007, 12:48 AM
- - ncgalant   Not a problem, I'll be so happy to throw in a...   Feb 25 2007, 01:28 PM
- - awd4kicks   No problem TJ and thank you NC. The engine is tot...   Feb 25 2007, 09:02 PM
- - turbohcar   QUOTE (awd4kicks @ Feb 25 2007, 09:02 PM)No p...   Feb 25 2007, 09:17 PM
- - turbohcar   Eeeeewwww sounds bad Spy.... what's the word b...   Feb 26 2007, 05:12 PM
- - JBone   What happened? You have to be frickin' kiddin...   Feb 26 2007, 08:52 PM
- - turbohcar   I'd be wanting some engine rebuild money back....   Feb 27 2007, 06:08 PM
- - 97TalonTSI   Now that sucks!!!!!   Feb 27 2007, 07:30 PM
5 Pages V  < 1 2 3 4 > » 


Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 19th June 2026 - 02:09 PM
Design by: IPB Download & eBusiness Discussions