Mar 18 2006, 02:11 PM
Post
#101
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DSMCentral Godfather ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Admin Posts: 3,823 Joined: 10-January 01 From: Washburn Member No.: 26 |
I'm going to start my version of the DSMCentral project report others have been doing for a while now.
There is a lot of history that can be filled in later, but I'd like to start with the current upgrade path to date. In that vein I'd like to start of with the math or 'Engineering' if I may be so bold. When building up a project car I think most of us have found it's best to have a goal in mind, otherwise you will end-up spending more money than necessary and for things that may or may not add to the total package. The Talon has always been a work in progress for better acceleration with a heavy lean toward handling. I love to drag race, and I really like to autocross, and have a dream to be a road race driver burried in the back of my mind under all of the day to day responsibilites. This mentality has given the Talon a basic strut and coil over set-up with a front-to-rear spool that makes handling a breeze and makes a good roller for what ever power plant I can afford. With that in mind my upgrade goal is driven to increase acceleration. How do you measure acceleration when you love to drag race? 1/4 mile ET's! GOALS 10.8-11.3 sec. - Tentative 1/4 mile goal (Traction, Driving, breakage and planet alignment at perfect levels obviously 3280Lb's - Near stock weight of vehicle with driver 460 - 550HP - Approximate wheel HP required via 1/4 mile calculator 555 - 663HP - Approximate crank HP required assuming 17% drivetrain loss SUPPORTING REQUIREMENTS FUEL 620HP - Max Wlaboro 255HP Fuel pump supply figuring 30psi boost in a 25% safety margin (10% options &.6 BSFC?) (255lph/3.785=67gph x 7.25=485lbs/hr / .625=776 max HP / 1.25=622 HP) (Correction 210lph/3.785=55gph x 7.25=399lbs/hr / .625=638 max HP / 1.25=510 HP) (Optional #1? 210lph/3.785=55gph x 7.25=399lbs/hr / .625=638 max HP / 1.10=580 HP) (Optional #2? 210lph/3.785=55gph x 7.25=399lbs/hr / .600=665 max HP / 1.10=604 HP) (Optional #3? 210lph/3.785=55gph x 7.25=399lbs/hr / .560=712 max HP / 1.15=619 HP) (Optional #4? 210lph/3.785=55gph x 7.25=399lbs/hr / .560=712 max HP / 1.10=647 HP) 600LPH - Fuel volume/flow of (Stevetek style) 6AN DSM fuel system @ 60psi (2.35 times allowable volume than pump can supply) 488HP Fuel supply through (4) 850cc injectors at stock pressure (850cc/10.5=81lb/hr x.90(duty cycle)/.60=122HP/injector x 4=488HP) (850cc/10.5=81lb/hr x.90(duty cycle)/.56=130HP/injector x 4=520HP) (950cc/10.5=90lb/hr x.90(duty cycle)/.56=145HP/injector x 4=580HP) (1000cc/10.5=95lb/hr x.90(duty cycle)/.56=152HP/injector x 4=608HP) (1600cc/10.5=152lb/hr x.80(duty cycle)/.60=203HP/injector x 4=812HP) (1600cc/10.5=152lb/hr x.90(duty cycle)/.56=244HP/injector x 4=976HP) Optional injector sizes listed - HP amounts still questionably low dont they. After running out of injector at 20psi and my base fuel pressure cranked up to 48psi I think it's safe to say that these calculation are much more correct when they are conservative. In light of this I have rerun the numbers using ,65 as the lowest BSFC possible to keep the HP numbers realistic. (850cc/10.5=81lb/hr x.90(duty cycle)/.65=112HP/injector x 4=448HP) (1150cc/10.5=109lb/hr x.90(duty cycle)/.65=151HP/injector x 4=606HP) (1600cc/10.5=152lb/hr x.75(duty cycle)/.65=175HP/injector x 4=701HP) *This is obviously a questionable level. I need to recheck the figures but do plan on upping the fuel pressure if it will help sufficiently. With the same math except 100% duty cycle my stock 450 injectors figure out to support 288HP which figures pretty close to where I was with the 12.6 quarter mile runs. 850cc is 1.95 times bigger than 450s which I would like to say equates to 503HP at stock fuel pressures and 90% duty cycle. Hmmm can anyone shed better light on this? I would think 850cc injectors would be more than enough for 600crank HP, but it may be wishful thinking. TURBO 503WHP/428WTQ Max power applied with FP3052 ball bearing turbo on 93 octane (See dyno chart in my garage obviously is not my dyno run but a very similar build-up. This would figure up to 603HP and 515ft/lbs of torque at the crank at 17% drive train loss. ) CLUTCH 400ft/lbs Approximate holding power of existing 2600Pressure plate with street disk 500ft/lbs Approximate holding power of ACT 2600 pressure plate with 6 puck disk 600ft/lbs Approximate holding power of ACT 2900 pressure plate with street disk MISC Support mods 1G EPROM ECU remapped for 850cc injectors by NCGalant Victory Performance Street front mount with 2.5 aluminum piping FRH Intake manifold Stage 2 ported head w/ .5mm oversized valves & dual valve springs w/ titanium retainers Ported 2G exhaust manifold Tial 44mm External waste gate to external dump Tial Blow-off valve 3.5 GM MAF and 2.5 Dejontool blow through piping GM MAF translator for fine tuning TRE front to rear differential spool in an otherwise stock but fresh 1993 transmission Koni Yellow struts and shocks with Eibach coilover springs set at about 1.5 drop 13lb. 16 RX7 rims wrapped with Sumitomo P225/50R16 fatties Light weight battery Let me know if anyone has more info on the products I have listed or input on this project. A lot of my numbers are approximate so dont get too nitpicky on me.
Attached File(s)
-------------------- In Loving memory of David T Crebo
Greatness comes from the most unexpected places! ![]() |
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awd4kicks The TALON Mar 18 2006, 02:11 PM
awd4kicks Interesting to compare my current graph to the gra... Aug 13 2006, 04:55 PM
awd4kicks As usual. 3 steps forward and 2 steps back. I fe... Aug 28 2006, 09:18 PM
99Spyder All I have to say is... damn! Aug 28 2006, 09:26 PM
akamiami Crebo, you're remarkably persistent man. It t... Aug 28 2006, 11:39 PM
JBone QUOTE (akamiami @ Aug 28 2006, 11:39 PM)Crebo... Aug 29 2006, 12:19 AM
awd4kicks Yeah that or I'm stupid and stuborn.
Actuall... Aug 29 2006, 06:43 AM
AWD DSM 1 I can honestly say that I would have thrown in the... Aug 29 2006, 07:48 AM
haunter QUOTE (awd4kicks @ Aug 29 2006, 06:43 AM)Sure... Aug 29 2006, 08:16 AM
The Iron Goat Let's be honest here, Marcus. Much like the f... Aug 29 2006, 08:35 AM
mitsu90 you need a 2.0 or a 2.4 crank?? got the one in the... Aug 29 2006, 08:45 AM
awd4kicks Thanks guys..
Mitsu, I need a 2.4 crank. Kris (a... Aug 29 2006, 11:47 AM
awd4kicks BTW - Getting a semi-powerfull rear wheel drive to... Aug 29 2006, 12:41 PM
haunter QUOTE (awd4kicks @ Aug 29 2006, 12:41 PM)BTW ... Aug 29 2006, 08:32 PM
awd4kicks Polished the 2.4 Hyundai crank. Installed it in t... Sep 12 2006, 11:24 AM
black92_tsi_awd I assume you'll be ready by Vicary day... Sep 12 2006, 11:44 AM
awd4kicks I'm shooting for it... Just depends on if the ... Sep 12 2006, 11:48 AM
black92_tsi_awd RE: The TALON Sep 12 2006, 12:47 PM
awd4kicks I've been sick all through the weekend. Just ... Sep 20 2006, 07:04 AM
turbohcar QUOTE (awd4kicks @ Sep 20 2006, 07:04 AM)A st... Sep 20 2006, 07:14 AM
awd4kicks I believe she was going to go over 35. The gage j... Sep 20 2006, 08:19 AM
black92_tsi_awd QUOTE (awd4kicks @ Sep 20 2006, 07:04 AM)A ve... Sep 20 2006, 08:28 AM
awd4kicks Yeah...the crank and bearings are the only major t... Sep 20 2006, 09:31 AM
black92_tsi_awd You're running poly hard mounts right? That c... Sep 20 2006, 10:09 AM
awd4kicks Yeah polly mounts, but they areplyably, not rigid ... Sep 20 2006, 12:23 PM
wortdog 2.3's and 2.4's vibrate more than 2.0... Sep 20 2006, 06:05 PM
awd4kicks Thanks for the reasurance Wotrdog. Like I said ot... Sep 20 2006, 07:07 PM
awd4kicks Well, I do believe I'm done for the year fella... Sep 21 2006, 09:19 PM
wortdog Ouch, sorry to hear about that man , kinda makes ... Sep 21 2006, 09:25 PM
JBone Oh my god, Marcus. I can't believe it. It soun... Sep 21 2006, 10:57 PM
black92_tsi_awd Damn Marcus! That's a bad deal. I can... Sep 22 2006, 06:26 AM
ncgalant I don't think I could feel much more sorry for... Sep 22 2006, 06:44 AM
natedogg That absolutely sucks man. You've put more bl... Sep 22 2006, 07:00 AM
turbohcar Marcus,
Here's a bit of advice from somebody ... Sep 22 2006, 07:07 AM
AWD DSM 1 QUOTE (turbohcar @ Sep 22 2006, 07:07 AM)(don... Sep 22 2006, 07:45 AM
turbohcar QUOTE (AWD DSM 1 @ Sep 22 2006, 07:45 AM)Hey,... Sep 22 2006, 07:47 AM
mitsu90 you have got to be f*cking kidding me. I can... Sep 22 2006, 08:39 AM
awd4kicks Thanks guys.
And Turbohcar, although your ... Sep 22 2006, 02:20 PM
black92_tsi_awd QUOTE (awd4kicks @ Sep 22 2006, 02:20 PM)And ... Sep 22 2006, 02:25 PM
BudmannG Marcus,
My dad always told me if the horse throws... Sep 22 2006, 03:51 PM
awd4kicks INCREDIBLE! I finally looked under the Talon ... Sep 23 2006, 11:29 AM
black92_tsi_awd Damn Marcus...that's a hell of a pricey engine... Sep 23 2006, 01:59 PM
99Spyder Damn Marcus, I leave town for a few days and you g... Sep 25 2006, 10:06 PM
SCCA Stang QUOTE (BudmannG @ Sep 22 2006, 03:51 PM)Marcu... Sep 25 2006, 11:54 PM
awd4kicks QUOTE (gsxracer80 @ Sep 26 2006, 05:54 AM)in ... Sep 26 2006, 06:43 AM
awd4kicks Here is a pic of the carnage NC & I could pick... Sep 26 2006, 07:25 PM
JBone Commence Rod Explosion Dodging Sep 26 2006, 08:00 PM
awd4kicks Hahaha...No kidding! Sep 26 2006, 08:04 PM
mitsu90 I want to see pix of were it came out at Sep 26 2006, 08:05 PM
awd4kicks Ok, I've had some time to cool down and re-eva... Oct 20 2006, 08:46 AM
AWD DSM 1 Sounds like a plan stan... Oct 20 2006, 09:45 AM
turbohcar Good plan buddy! Lets hope this one stays tog... Oct 20 2006, 09:51 AM
awd4kicks Well the 'plan' is to make it stay togethe... Oct 20 2006, 10:00 AM
black92_tsi_awd I'll be the first to call you out then! ... Oct 20 2006, 10:18 AM
ncgalant I'm going to be PISSED if this one has the sam... Oct 23 2006, 10:06 AM
awd4kicks Yeah, in the back of my mind I'm hoping that g... Oct 23 2006, 03:18 PM
treydawgs4g63T WEll, i have to say I am amazed at the amount of t... Oct 23 2006, 11:28 PM
awd4kicks I should clear that up a bit. I still believe in ... Oct 24 2006, 06:49 AM
awd4kicks I picked up my fresh Buscher Stage 3 short block M... Nov 15 2006, 12:52 PM
black92_tsi_awd Excellant!
Can't wait to see her on th... Nov 15 2006, 01:00 PM
turbohcar QUOTE (black92_tsi_awd @ Nov 15 2006, 01:00 P... Nov 15 2006, 02:15 PM
natedogg Good news, man! Still going with the big turb... Nov 15 2006, 03:00 PM
awd4kicks Yeah, I'm going to stick with the FP3052 for n... Nov 15 2006, 03:27 PM
turbohcar I have a prediction that it will spool faster than... Nov 15 2006, 04:09 PM
awd4kicks QUOTE (mitsu90 @ Sep 27 2006, 02:05 AM)I want... Nov 27 2006, 12:36 PM
awd4kicks I pulled and partially disassembled the 2.4 over t... Nov 27 2006, 12:44 PM
awd4kicks #3 Nov 27 2006, 12:45 PM
awd4kicks #4 Nov 27 2006, 12:46 PM
awd4kicks Can you see the scoring and gouging on the bottom ... Nov 27 2006, 12:47 PM
awd4kicks And it's a shame because this is how beautiful... Nov 27 2006, 12:50 PM
turbohcar Poor ol' girl. You'll have her ready in n... Nov 27 2006, 02:08 PM
black92_tsi_awd Damn! You sure do it up big Kicks! Nov 27 2006, 04:06 PM
awd4kicks Got my Fluidyne radiator repaired already. Kalina... Dec 1 2006, 10:47 AM
JBone Wow... I just can't believe it...
I could n... Dec 1 2006, 03:10 PM
turbohcar You're back on the right track though Marcus. ... Dec 1 2006, 05:44 PM
black92_tsi_awd Go, Kicks Go!!!! Dec 1 2006, 06:20 PM
awd4kicks I'm just now getting the project rolling again... Jan 3 2007, 10:40 AM
awd4kicks I'm going to stick with the FP3052 unless I fi... Jan 3 2007, 11:22 AM
Mitsu 77 I don't think you will find that to be an issu... Jan 4 2007, 07:21 AM
awd4kicks I finally got the broken 2.4 stroker totally disas... Jan 9 2007, 10:34 PM
awd4kicks From the bottom: Jan 9 2007, 10:35 PM
awd4kicks The pile of broken and beaten parts waiting to go ... Jan 9 2007, 10:36 PM
Kazz5 Ouch. I'm feelin' it. Jan 10 2007, 09:14 AM
ncgalant When do you think she will be up and running? I c... Jan 10 2007, 02:45 PM
awd4kicks With the budget going to hell like it has, I'm... Jan 10 2007, 04:00 PM
awd4kicks The Manley valves are in at Winner's Circle. ... Jan 13 2007, 09:38 PM
awd4kicks Got word today that I will be able to pick my cyli... Jan 25 2007, 11:57 AM
black92_tsi_awd JNZ always treated me good too. Got all my rebuil... Jan 25 2007, 01:25 PM
awd4kicks Almost all the parts are finally in so I can start... Feb 6 2007, 09:23 PM
turbohcar Schweet!!!
Need new tie rods too?? I... Feb 6 2007, 09:27 PM
awd4kicks QUOTE (turbohcar @ Feb 7 2007, 03:27 AM)Schwe... Feb 7 2007, 07:44 AM
natedogg Mmmm...shiny. Feb 7 2007, 08:56 AM
awd4kicks I picked up a set of used HKS 272 cams from Darryl... Feb 25 2007, 12:04 AM
treydawgs4g63T let me know when you go out with it cause im break... Feb 25 2007, 12:48 AM
ncgalant Not a problem, I'll be so happy to throw in a... Feb 25 2007, 01:28 PM
awd4kicks No problem TJ and thank you NC.
The engine is tot... Feb 25 2007, 09:02 PM
turbohcar QUOTE (awd4kicks @ Feb 25 2007, 09:02 PM)No p... Feb 25 2007, 09:17 PM
turbohcar Eeeeewwww sounds bad Spy.... what's the word b... Feb 26 2007, 05:12 PM
JBone What happened? You have to be frickin' kiddin... Feb 26 2007, 08:52 PM
turbohcar I'd be wanting some engine rebuild money back.... Feb 27 2007, 06:08 PM
97TalonTSI Now that sucks!!!!! Feb 27 2007, 07:30 PM![]() ![]() |
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