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> The TALON, Running Project Report
awd4kicks
post Mar 18 2006, 02:11 PM
Post #201


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I'm going to start my version of the DSMCentral project report others have been doing for a while now.

There is a lot of history that can be filled in later, but I'd like to start with the current upgrade path to date. In that vein I'd like to start of with the math or 'Engineering' if I may be so bold.

When building up a project car I think most of us have found it's best to have a goal in mind, otherwise you will end-up spending more money than necessary and for things that may or may not add to the total package.

The Talon has always been a work in progress for better acceleration with a heavy lean toward handling. I love to drag race, and I really like to autocross, and have a dream to be a road race driver burried in the back of my mind under all of the day to day responsibilites. This mentality has given the Talon a basic strut and coil over set-up with a front-to-rear spool that makes handling a breeze and makes a good roller for what ever power plant I can afford. With that in mind my upgrade goal is driven to increase acceleration.

How do you measure acceleration when you love to drag race? 1/4 mile ET's!

GOALS
10.8-11.3 sec. - Tentative 1/4 mile goal (Traction, Driving, breakage and planet alignment at perfect levels obviously laugh.gif )

3280Lb's - Near stock weight of vehicle with driver

460 - 550HP - Approximate wheel HP required via 1/4 mile calculator

555 - 663HP - Approximate crank HP required assuming 17% drivetrain loss

SUPPORTING REQUIREMENTS

FUEL
620HP - Max Wlaboro 255HP Fuel pump supply figuring 30psi boost in a 25% safety margin (10% options &.6 BSFC?)
(255lph/3.785=67gph x 7.25=485lbs/hr / .625=776 max HP / 1.25=622 HP)
(Correction 210lph/3.785=55gph x 7.25=399lbs/hr / .625=638 max HP / 1.25=510 HP)
(Optional #1? 210lph/3.785=55gph x 7.25=399lbs/hr / .625=638 max HP / 1.10=580 HP)
(Optional #2? 210lph/3.785=55gph x 7.25=399lbs/hr / .600=665 max HP / 1.10=604 HP)
(Optional #3? 210lph/3.785=55gph x 7.25=399lbs/hr / .560=712 max HP / 1.15=619 HP)
(Optional #4? 210lph/3.785=55gph x 7.25=399lbs/hr / .560=712 max HP / 1.10=647 HP)


600LPH - Fuel volume/flow of (Stevetek style) 6AN DSM fuel system @ 60psi
(2.35 times allowable volume than pump can supply)

488HP – Fuel supply through (4) 850cc injectors at stock pressure
(850cc/10.5=81lb/hr x.90(duty cycle)/.60=122HP/injector x 4=488HP)
(850cc/10.5=81lb/hr x.90(duty cycle)/.56=130HP/injector x 4=520HP)
(950cc/10.5=90lb/hr x.90(duty cycle)/.56=145HP/injector x 4=580HP)
(1000cc/10.5=95lb/hr x.90(duty cycle)/.56=152HP/injector x 4=608HP)
(1600cc/10.5=152lb/hr x.80(duty cycle)/.60=203HP/injector x 4=812HP)
(1600cc/10.5=152lb/hr x.90(duty cycle)/.56=244HP/injector x 4=976HP)
Optional injector sizes listed - HP amounts still questionably low dont they.

After running out of injector at 20psi and my base fuel pressure cranked up to 48psi I think it's safe to say that these calculation are much more correct when they are conservative. In light of this I have rerun the numbers using ,65 as the lowest BSFC possible to keep the HP numbers realistic. (850cc/10.5=81lb/hr x.90(duty cycle)/.65=112HP/injector x 4=448HP)
(1150cc/10.5=109lb/hr x.90(duty cycle)/.65=151HP/injector x 4=606HP)
(1600cc/10.5=152lb/hr x.75(duty cycle)/.65=175HP/injector x 4=701HP)


*This is obviously a questionable level. I need to recheck the figures but do plan on upping the fuel pressure if it will help sufficiently. With the same math except 100% duty cycle my stock 450 injectors figure out to support 288HP which figures pretty close to where I was with the 12.6 quarter mile runs. 850cc is 1.95 times bigger than 450s which I would like to say equates to 503HP at stock fuel pressures and 90% duty cycle.
Hmmm…can anyone shed better light on this? I would think 850cc injectors would be more than enough for 600crank HP, but it may be wishful thinking.

TURBO
503WHP/428WTQ – Max power applied with FP3052 ball bearing turbo on 93 octane
(See dyno chart in my garage – obviously is not my dyno run but a very similar build-up. This would figure up to 603HP and 515ft/lb’s of torque at the crank at 17% drive train loss. )

CLUTCH
400ft/lbs – Approximate holding power of existing 2600Pressure plate with street disk
500ft/lbs – Approximate holding power of ACT 2600 pressure plate with 6 puck disk
600ft/lbs – Approximate holding power of ACT 2900 pressure plate with street disk

MISC Support mods
1G EPROM ECU – remapped for 850cc injectors by NCGalant
Victory Performance Street front mount with 2.5” aluminum piping
FRH Intake manifold
Stage 2 ported head w/ .5mm oversized valves & dual valve springs w/ titanium retainers
Ported 2G exhaust manifold
Tial 44mm External waste gate to external dump
Tial Blow-off valve
3.5” GM MAF and 2.5” Dejontool blow through piping
GM MAF translator for fine tuning
TRE front to rear differential spool in an otherwise stock but fresh 1993 transmission
Koni Yellow struts and shocks with Eibach coilover springs set at about 1.5” drop
13lb. 16” RX7 rims wrapped with Sumitomo P225/50R16 fatties
Light weight battery

Let me know if anyone has more info on the products I have listed or input on this project. A lot of my numbers are approximate so don’t get too nitpicky on me. biggthumpup.gif[/COLOR]
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Posts in this topic
- awd4kicks   The TALON   Mar 18 2006, 02:11 PM
- - mitsu90   must have choked on some rice   Feb 28 2007, 09:03 AM
- - Kazz5   QUOTE (mitsu90 @ Feb 28 2007, 09:03 AM)must h...   Feb 28 2007, 10:59 AM
- - Kazz5   QUOTE (Spyonu2007 @ Feb 28 2007, 07:13 PM)htt...   Mar 1 2007, 10:50 AM
- - awd4kicks   IT's ALIVE! (again) Break-in to commence ...   Mar 3 2007, 10:29 PM
- - wortdog   Nice ! I'm looking to get mine together b...   Mar 3 2007, 11:19 PM
- - black92_tsi_awd   Congradulations!! Now just take it easy a...   Mar 4 2007, 07:54 AM
- - turbohcar   Plan on a DSMCentral meet in LeRoy sometime in the...   Mar 4 2007, 09:24 AM
- - awd4kicks   She is definitely alive & kicking. Running pr...   Mar 4 2007, 01:08 PM
- - turbohcar   Being that most of the events are held in Peoria, ...   Mar 4 2007, 10:09 PM
- - awd4kicks   I'm willing to make the trip. it's differ...   Mar 4 2007, 10:11 PM
- - turbohcar   QUOTE (awd4kicks @ Mar 4 2007, 01:08 PM)While...   Mar 5 2007, 05:12 PM
- - treydawgs4g63T   im up for a gathering almost anywhere just to get ...   Mar 5 2007, 05:15 PM
- - awd4kicks   Finally got a few miles on the Buscher block tonig...   Mar 8 2007, 10:42 PM
- - turbohcar   LOL, at least it drives down the road!!...   Mar 11 2007, 07:55 PM
- - awd4kicks   Through out the weekend I was able to put over 250...   Mar 11 2007, 09:44 PM
- - turbohcar   Sweetness!!! What was purging oil out...   Mar 12 2007, 06:21 AM
- - black92_tsi_awd   Got pictures of the upper control arm extenders? ...   Mar 12 2007, 06:24 AM
- - awd4kicks   QUOTE (Spyonu2007 @ Mar 12 2007, 03:18 PM)The...   Mar 12 2007, 12:17 PM
- - awd4kicks   At about 390 mile now. I also got the alignment s...   Mar 13 2007, 08:07 PM
- - awd4kicks   After some logging at the party last night we foun...   Mar 18 2007, 10:13 PM
- - awd4kicks   We did a run from 2000RPM in 2nd gear. The knock ...   Mar 19 2007, 02:34 PM
- - ncgalant   It also seemed to be knocking worse in lower gears...   Mar 19 2007, 03:25 PM
- - awd4kicks   Quick Update: About 1000 miles now Passenger rea...   Mar 26 2007, 07:08 AM
- - Kazz5   Dropped by to see you this morning but you're ...   Mar 26 2007, 09:48 AM
- - awd4kicks   QUOTE (Kazz5 @ Mar 26 2007, 03:48 PM)Dropped ...   Mar 26 2007, 04:23 PM
- - Kazz5   QUOTE (awd4kicks @ Mar 26 2007, 04:23 PM)QUOT...   Mar 26 2007, 09:51 PM
- - Kazz5   I think a Talon, TA, Evo thing might work one day....   Mar 27 2007, 12:08 PM
- - awd4kicks   Come-on now. Steeling an already weak line is jus...   Mar 27 2007, 01:47 PM
- - turbohcar   QUOTE (Spyonu2007 @ Mar 27 2007, 02:17 PM)QUO...   Mar 27 2007, 07:03 PM
- - awd4kicks   Project Date: 3.30.07-1250mi. Some intuitive tuni...   Mar 30 2007, 01:28 PM
- - AWD DSM 1   Something's wrong... you're car isn't...   Mar 30 2007, 01:38 PM
- - awd4kicks   Thanks man.   Mar 30 2007, 01:43 PM
- - black92_tsi_awd   Glad to hear it Marcus! Can't wait to se...   Mar 30 2007, 03:43 PM
- - awd4kicks   Very appreciated fellas!   Mar 30 2007, 04:11 PM
- - natedogg   Awesome that its running great for you! Props...   Mar 31 2007, 06:58 PM
- - awd4kicks   It's spring time, you should get your DSM out ...   Apr 2 2007, 06:49 AM
- - natedogg   Yeah, I'm up for it. I've been wanting to...   Apr 2 2007, 07:10 AM
- - awd4kicks   More test driving... Trying to re-learn my driving...   Apr 2 2007, 08:44 PM
- - asiankid91   so clean   Apr 2 2007, 10:55 PM
- - treydawgs4g63T   Yeah so your car is the SH*T. Im up for a cruis...   Apr 3 2007, 01:08 AM
- - Kazz5   Very clean, very sharp!   Apr 3 2007, 08:02 AM
- - haunter   is your transmission completely stock Marcus?   Apr 3 2007, 09:23 AM
- - awd4kicks   Pretty much a stock 93+ transmission with less tha...   Apr 3 2007, 01:00 PM
- - haunter   interesting GM HTP had issues with the stock t-5...   Apr 5 2007, 03:08 PM
- - awd4kicks   Project Date: 4.17.07-1750mi. The biggest news......   Apr 17 2007, 07:03 AM
- - natedogg   Good killed story, buddy. Hangin with a vette tha...   Apr 17 2007, 09:02 AM
- - black92_tsi_awd   Should be hauling ass by SCDC!! Sounds l...   Apr 17 2007, 10:31 AM
- - awd4kicks   Oh yeah... Let me even put the current Talon tune ...   Apr 17 2007, 11:34 AM
- - black92_tsi_awd   I'm afraid to see your car run, let alone Nate...   Apr 17 2007, 12:21 PM
- - natedogg   Yeah its f-ing scary! Thanks for the help...   Apr 17 2007, 03:01 PM
- - turbohcar   Very cool Marcus!! Keep up the good work...   Apr 17 2007, 07:33 PM
- - awd4kicks   Last night I finally built up the courage to do an...   Apr 19 2007, 12:17 PM
- - ncgalant   You should be trapping 115-120 easy. When were yo...   Apr 19 2007, 01:00 PM
- - natedogg   I find the stutter box works better for me when I ...   Apr 19 2007, 02:31 PM
- - awd4kicks   I think we are doing similar things on the launch ...   Apr 19 2007, 05:18 PM
- - mitsu90   I also noticed with a stutter you need to ease the...   Apr 19 2007, 05:22 PM
- - awd4kicks   QUOTE (ncgalant @ Apr 19 2007, 07:00 PM)You s...   Apr 20 2007, 06:57 AM
- - mitsu90   D.I.D. Racing, Inc. is going to be hosting a FREE ...   Apr 20 2007, 07:22 AM
- - awd4kicks   Thanks Mistsu... I wasn't able to make it up N...   Apr 23 2007, 06:52 AM
- - natedogg   What is your timing before and after knock retard?...   Apr 23 2007, 07:09 AM
- - ncgalant   The timing map is 4000 13 4500 15 5000 15 5500 16...   Apr 24 2007, 09:18 AM
- - natedogg   Running a wideband is probably the best idea I hav...   Apr 24 2007, 09:43 AM
- - black92_tsi_awd   Pocketlogger will also work with the AEM unit I bo...   Apr 24 2007, 10:30 AM
- - awd4kicks   I agree with the Wide band tuning. The most knock...   Apr 24 2007, 11:53 AM
- - awd4kicks   Found the base timing a couple degrees too advance...   Apr 24 2007, 07:06 PM
- - haunter   sounds like you are making good progress!   Apr 25 2007, 02:34 PM
- - awd4kicks   I welded in a water/alchohal injection nozzle last...   May 4 2007, 03:55 PM
- - black92_tsi_awd   Kicks....replace the cylinder before it goes out...   May 4 2007, 06:35 PM
- - awd4kicks   I was thinking the same thing Chris. Spy, I don...   May 5 2007, 08:01 AM
- - Kazz5   QUOTE (awd4kicks @ May 4 2007, 03:55 PM)I wel...   May 5 2007, 08:01 AM
- - awd4kicks   I'm not sure on that one Kazz. I should call ...   May 9 2007, 06:14 AM
- - awd4kicks   I am UNTOUCHABLE now!   May 9 2007, 11:41 AM
- - awd4kicks   Nah, I'm kidding. The most boost I was able t...   May 9 2007, 11:50 AM
- - ncgalant   Have you tried putting in some water? I'm cur...   May 9 2007, 02:32 PM
- - wortdog   Everything I've ever seen points to 100% metha...   May 9 2007, 03:24 PM
- - natedogg   If it is truly more cooling that you need rather t...   May 9 2007, 03:33 PM
- - awd4kicks   Yeah I still got it Nate. I remember when we w...   May 9 2007, 05:43 PM
- - awd4kicks   Just got done doing some cooler temperature testin...   May 9 2007, 08:43 PM
- - awd4kicks   Taylor wires! There has to be some issue with...   May 10 2007, 09:45 PM
- - ncgalant   When I had the laser it ran seemingly fine with on...   May 11 2007, 08:28 AM
- - awd4kicks   QUOTE (Spyonu2007 @ May 11 2007, 02:50 PM)Wit...   May 11 2007, 11:55 AM
- - haunter   good to see you are sorting it out marcus!   May 11 2007, 03:24 PM
- - awd4kicks   Sorting it out... That pretty much sums it all up....   May 17 2007, 07:09 AM
- - black92_tsi_awd   We're going to Cordova tommorrow night...want ...   May 17 2007, 07:20 AM
- - awd4kicks   Haha...you ran out of steam before you could even ...   May 17 2007, 12:00 PM
- - awd4kicks   Ahh...Betting on the Talon breaking I see. Wel...   May 17 2007, 02:28 PM
- - JBone   Oh how I wish I could finally see your car put up ...   May 17 2007, 04:28 PM
- - haunter   QUOTE (awd4kicks @ May 17 2007, 02:28 PM)Ahh....   May 18 2007, 09:26 AM
- - awd4kicks   QUOTE (black92_tsi_awd @ May 17 2007, 01:20 P...   May 18 2007, 12:18 PM
- - turbohcar   QUOTE (awd4kicks @ May 18 2007, 12:18 PM)QUOT...   May 19 2007, 07:19 AM
- - awd4kicks   Well I now have good brakes even on boost thanks t...   May 19 2007, 02:56 PM
- - awd4kicks   That's possible, I have no idea what it will r...   May 19 2007, 10:32 PM
- - awd4kicks   Considering all the factors, I'm happy with th...   May 21 2007, 11:18 AM
- - awd4kicks   Oh and I found one other important factor which co...   May 22 2007, 06:38 AM
- - treydawgs4g63T   glad to hear all your hard work and effort paid of...   May 22 2007, 07:19 AM
- - natedogg   I'd be surprised if it was your BOV that was l...   May 22 2007, 12:14 PM
- - awd4kicks   I have not changed the spring in my BOV. So I sho...   May 23 2007, 06:20 AM
- - natedogg   Yeah makes you wonder. I was pleased with my old ...   May 23 2007, 09:07 AM
- - awd4kicks   Wow...Close call today! I drove the Talon t...   May 24 2007, 08:20 PM
- - The Iron Goat   Finally, a Jeebus Creebus story with a happy endin...   May 25 2007, 05:29 PM
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