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> The TALON, Running Project Report
awd4kicks
post Mar 18 2006, 02:11 PM
Post #301


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I'm going to start my version of the DSMCentral project report others have been doing for a while now.

There is a lot of history that can be filled in later, but I'd like to start with the current upgrade path to date. In that vein I'd like to start of with the math or 'Engineering' if I may be so bold.

When building up a project car I think most of us have found it's best to have a goal in mind, otherwise you will end-up spending more money than necessary and for things that may or may not add to the total package.

The Talon has always been a work in progress for better acceleration with a heavy lean toward handling. I love to drag race, and I really like to autocross, and have a dream to be a road race driver burried in the back of my mind under all of the day to day responsibilites. This mentality has given the Talon a basic strut and coil over set-up with a front-to-rear spool that makes handling a breeze and makes a good roller for what ever power plant I can afford. With that in mind my upgrade goal is driven to increase acceleration.

How do you measure acceleration when you love to drag race? 1/4 mile ET's!

GOALS
10.8-11.3 sec. - Tentative 1/4 mile goal (Traction, Driving, breakage and planet alignment at perfect levels obviously laugh.gif )

3280Lb's - Near stock weight of vehicle with driver

460 - 550HP - Approximate wheel HP required via 1/4 mile calculator

555 - 663HP - Approximate crank HP required assuming 17% drivetrain loss

SUPPORTING REQUIREMENTS

FUEL
620HP - Max Wlaboro 255HP Fuel pump supply figuring 30psi boost in a 25% safety margin (10% options &.6 BSFC?)
(255lph/3.785=67gph x 7.25=485lbs/hr / .625=776 max HP / 1.25=622 HP)
(Correction 210lph/3.785=55gph x 7.25=399lbs/hr / .625=638 max HP / 1.25=510 HP)
(Optional #1? 210lph/3.785=55gph x 7.25=399lbs/hr / .625=638 max HP / 1.10=580 HP)
(Optional #2? 210lph/3.785=55gph x 7.25=399lbs/hr / .600=665 max HP / 1.10=604 HP)
(Optional #3? 210lph/3.785=55gph x 7.25=399lbs/hr / .560=712 max HP / 1.15=619 HP)
(Optional #4? 210lph/3.785=55gph x 7.25=399lbs/hr / .560=712 max HP / 1.10=647 HP)


600LPH - Fuel volume/flow of (Stevetek style) 6AN DSM fuel system @ 60psi
(2.35 times allowable volume than pump can supply)

488HP – Fuel supply through (4) 850cc injectors at stock pressure
(850cc/10.5=81lb/hr x.90(duty cycle)/.60=122HP/injector x 4=488HP)
(850cc/10.5=81lb/hr x.90(duty cycle)/.56=130HP/injector x 4=520HP)
(950cc/10.5=90lb/hr x.90(duty cycle)/.56=145HP/injector x 4=580HP)
(1000cc/10.5=95lb/hr x.90(duty cycle)/.56=152HP/injector x 4=608HP)
(1600cc/10.5=152lb/hr x.80(duty cycle)/.60=203HP/injector x 4=812HP)
(1600cc/10.5=152lb/hr x.90(duty cycle)/.56=244HP/injector x 4=976HP)
Optional injector sizes listed - HP amounts still questionably low dont they.

After running out of injector at 20psi and my base fuel pressure cranked up to 48psi I think it's safe to say that these calculation are much more correct when they are conservative. In light of this I have rerun the numbers using ,65 as the lowest BSFC possible to keep the HP numbers realistic. (850cc/10.5=81lb/hr x.90(duty cycle)/.65=112HP/injector x 4=448HP)
(1150cc/10.5=109lb/hr x.90(duty cycle)/.65=151HP/injector x 4=606HP)
(1600cc/10.5=152lb/hr x.75(duty cycle)/.65=175HP/injector x 4=701HP)


*This is obviously a questionable level. I need to recheck the figures but do plan on upping the fuel pressure if it will help sufficiently. With the same math except 100% duty cycle my stock 450 injectors figure out to support 288HP which figures pretty close to where I was with the 12.6 quarter mile runs. 850cc is 1.95 times bigger than 450s which I would like to say equates to 503HP at stock fuel pressures and 90% duty cycle.
Hmmm…can anyone shed better light on this? I would think 850cc injectors would be more than enough for 600crank HP, but it may be wishful thinking.

TURBO
503WHP/428WTQ – Max power applied with FP3052 ball bearing turbo on 93 octane
(See dyno chart in my garage – obviously is not my dyno run but a very similar build-up. This would figure up to 603HP and 515ft/lb’s of torque at the crank at 17% drive train loss. )

CLUTCH
400ft/lbs – Approximate holding power of existing 2600Pressure plate with street disk
500ft/lbs – Approximate holding power of ACT 2600 pressure plate with 6 puck disk
600ft/lbs – Approximate holding power of ACT 2900 pressure plate with street disk

MISC Support mods
1G EPROM ECU – remapped for 850cc injectors by NCGalant
Victory Performance Street front mount with 2.5” aluminum piping
FRH Intake manifold
Stage 2 ported head w/ .5mm oversized valves & dual valve springs w/ titanium retainers
Ported 2G exhaust manifold
Tial 44mm External waste gate to external dump
Tial Blow-off valve
3.5” GM MAF and 2.5” Dejontool blow through piping
GM MAF translator for fine tuning
TRE front to rear differential spool in an otherwise stock but fresh 1993 transmission
Koni Yellow struts and shocks with Eibach coilover springs set at about 1.5” drop
13lb. 16” RX7 rims wrapped with Sumitomo P225/50R16 fatties
Light weight battery

Let me know if anyone has more info on the products I have listed or input on this project. A lot of my numbers are approximate so don’t get too nitpicky on me. biggthumpup.gif[/COLOR]
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Posts in this topic
- awd4kicks   The TALON   Mar 18 2006, 02:11 PM
- - awd4kicks   Yeah, no kidding fellas! It's been a stra...   May 26 2007, 08:27 AM
- - awd4kicks   Running clean on meth-o-lyene! Yeah it doesn...   May 30 2007, 06:33 AM
- - ncgalant   If you recall I said that at the track Good to...   May 30 2007, 06:39 AM
- - awd4kicks   QUOTE (ncgalant @ May 30 2007, 12:39 PM)If yo...   May 30 2007, 09:38 AM
- - turbohcar   QUOTE (awd4kicks @ May 30 2007, 09:38 AM)If y...   May 30 2007, 04:21 PM
- - awd4kicks   Umm, no. Faulty parts, Faulty assembly, fatigued ...   May 30 2007, 09:47 PM
- - awd4kicks   I've been chasing some boost leaks and am now ...   Jun 4 2007, 09:36 PM
- - black92_tsi_awd   Don't you have fuel cut removed in the eprom? ...   Jun 5 2007, 06:09 AM
- - natedogg   I was thinking the same thing. My dsmlink removes...   Jun 5 2007, 07:10 AM
- - wortdog   Could be a bad MAF if its shooting straight from 4...   Jun 5 2007, 11:40 AM
- - ncgalant   Fuel cut has been eliminated completely. The feat...   Jun 7 2007, 09:52 AM
- - black92_tsi_awd   Looks like someone will be in the market for a MSD...   Jun 7 2007, 10:36 AM
- - wortdog   Another thought is that I've heard of people w...   Jun 7 2007, 02:08 PM
- - ncgalant   I'll try to get that chip for you on saturday   Jun 7 2007, 03:05 PM
- - awd4kicks   Thanks for the input so far guys. It's not sp...   Jun 7 2007, 04:16 PM
- - awd4kicks   Thanks Spy, I am currently running a 3.5" MAF...   Jun 8 2007, 07:08 AM
- - awd4kicks   Hahaha...that would be nice, but then I would be t...   Jun 8 2007, 08:38 AM
- - haunter   QUOTE (awd4kicks @ Jun 8 2007, 08:38 AM)Hahah...   Jun 8 2007, 10:45 AM
- - awd4kicks   RE: The TALON   Jun 8 2007, 10:48 AM
- - natedogg   Kinda does sound like a bad voltage regulator. I h...   Jun 8 2007, 11:49 AM
- - turbohcar   Gotta say boys, I've worked for Advance for ov...   Jun 8 2007, 10:11 PM
- - awd4kicks   Well I got the boost to hold up to 23-27psi with m...   Jun 16 2007, 10:24 PM
- - awd4kicks   Things are back on track now. Drove the Talon all...   Jun 27 2007, 06:45 AM
- - JBone   FINALLY!!!!   Jun 27 2007, 05:44 PM
- - awd4kicks   Hahaha...After dialing it in the power got the bes...   Jul 7 2007, 08:09 AM
- - awd4kicks   When I removed the transmission found that my Mits...   Jul 7 2007, 01:20 PM
- - black92_tsi_awd   Wish I knew, my Mitsu TOB been chirping since I re...   Jul 8 2007, 07:44 PM
- - black92_tsi_awd   What the status of the trans? You going to have ...   Jul 16 2007, 06:04 PM
- - awd4kicks   Maybe. Josh is working on TJ's transmission f...   Jul 16 2007, 07:46 PM
- - awd4kicks   Transmission is apart now. Third gear has two tee...   Jul 20 2007, 05:35 PM
- - awd4kicks   I found that TRE has stepped up to the plate that ...   Jul 26 2007, 07:02 AM
- - haunter   awesome! that sounds like a pricey setup!   Jul 26 2007, 02:16 PM
- - JBone   Always one for the dramatic last chance assembly t...   Jul 26 2007, 03:46 PM
- - awd4kicks   You know me buddy!   Jul 26 2007, 05:40 PM
- - black92_tsi_awd   Sounds like that tranny should solve your problems...   Jul 26 2007, 06:14 PM
- - natedogg   QUOTE (awd4kicks @ Jul 26 2007, 07:02 AM)I fo...   Jul 27 2007, 09:20 AM
- - awd4kicks   Sadly, the parts did not show up. So the talon wo...   Jul 27 2007, 07:16 PM
- - turbohcar   QUOTE (awd4kicks @ Jul 27 2007, 07:16 PM)Sadl...   Jul 27 2007, 10:50 PM
- - awd4kicks   that's how it goes. It appears it was caused ...   Jul 28 2007, 09:38 AM
- - awd4kicks   I received the EVO-III transmission parts last nig...   Aug 1 2007, 11:34 AM
- - awd4kicks   Ran into a few small glitches last night on the tr...   Aug 2 2007, 07:02 AM
- - awd4kicks   Well, Another Friday has come and gone with no pac...   Aug 17 2007, 06:06 PM
- - Kazz5   Jon @ TRE has plenty of reasons his shit's lat...   Aug 17 2007, 08:58 PM
- - awd4kicks   Yes, I should clarify. I know how business goes a...   Aug 17 2007, 10:28 PM
- - awd4kicks   Haha...Thanks buddy. You are right. I have a bur...   Aug 18 2007, 08:36 AM
- - black92_tsi_awd   Well when your ready to hit the track let me know....   Aug 18 2007, 09:14 AM
- - awd4kicks   Well, it looks like I started bitching one busines...   Aug 20 2007, 04:07 PM
- - awd4kicks   Transmission has been re-assembled and should be g...   Aug 21 2007, 06:11 AM
- - awd4kicks   Things didn't go quite as planned tonight. I ...   Aug 21 2007, 08:48 PM
- - wortdog   I have one that you can have, if you feel like com...   Aug 22 2007, 08:08 PM
- - awd4kicks   Thanks for the offers and effort guys! AWD DSM...   Aug 23 2007, 06:32 AM
- - awd4kicks   Took some clutch pedal adjustment, and may need mo...   Aug 23 2007, 08:34 PM
- - ncgalant   If you run into issues I've got a new in bag m...   Aug 24 2007, 10:05 AM
- - black92_tsi_awd   Soooo? How's she shifting???   Aug 24 2007, 08:33 PM
- - awd4kicks   The talon is shifting great now. I wouldn't m...   Aug 25 2007, 08:45 AM
- - black92_tsi_awd   What gear are you missing? Third? I replaced th...   Aug 25 2007, 05:44 PM
- - awd4kicks   I re-adjusted my clutch pedal today. I didn't...   Aug 26 2007, 12:54 AM
- - awd4kicks   Oh it's getting sick now to realize how much p...   Aug 26 2007, 09:54 AM
- - black92_tsi_awd   Kicks Did you actually race during the World Serie...   Aug 26 2007, 04:04 PM
- - awd4kicks   I installed the heavier Waste Gate spring again. ...   Aug 29 2007, 07:15 PM
- - black92_tsi_awd   QUOTE (awd4kicks @ Aug 29 2007, 07:15 PM)That...   Aug 29 2007, 07:50 PM
- - akamiami   Please tell me that you're not selling this ca...   Sep 16 2007, 05:30 AM
- - awd4kicks   HA... Most people (Non DSM folks and family) think...   Sep 16 2007, 09:33 AM
- - akamiami   QUOTE (awd4kicks @ Sep 16 2007, 09:33 AM)... ...   Sep 16 2007, 12:36 PM
- - awd4kicks   Thanks Kris, very much appreciated. I know you ha...   Sep 17 2007, 06:03 AM
- - natedogg   Man, I finally get mine out of the garage this pas...   Sep 17 2007, 07:44 AM
- - turbohcar   Sorry to hear about the sale, but I have to admit ...   Sep 17 2007, 08:38 PM
- - black92_tsi_awd   I don't know...I would only let "distrust...   Sep 17 2007, 09:06 PM
- - awd4kicks   I don't think many have had the bad run of luc...   Sep 18 2007, 05:42 AM
- - ncgalant   Marcus, I can hate you for doing it, but when it w...   Sep 18 2007, 08:38 AM
- - AWD DSM 1   Sorry to hear about the sale ODT... wish I had th...   Sep 18 2007, 02:51 PM
- - turbohcar   QUOTE (Spyonu2007 @ Sep 18 2007, 04:01 PM)int...   Sep 18 2007, 05:43 PM
- - wortdog   QUOTE (awd4kicks @ Sep 18 2007, 11:42 AM)I do...   Sep 18 2007, 09:51 PM
- - awd4kicks   Long before the stroker motor saga, my future visi...   Sep 21 2007, 02:15 PM
- - black92_tsi_awd   Now that's what I call good salemanship!...   Sep 21 2007, 08:28 PM
- - awd4kicks   A week or so ago, all this power led to another tr...   Oct 9 2007, 06:04 AM
- - treydawgs4g63T   email sent. i might have what u need!   Oct 9 2007, 05:47 PM
- - awd4kicks   I appreciate it TJ. I'll get a hold of you soo...   Oct 9 2007, 06:52 PM
- - awd4kicks   Thanks to Josh, Jon at TRE and TJ, the Talon is ba...   Oct 29 2007, 09:03 PM
- - treydawgs4g63T   anything to get the talon back on the streets budd...   Oct 31 2007, 07:54 AM
- - awd4kicks   QUOTE (treydawgs4g63T @ Oct 31 2007, 01:54 PM...   Nov 1 2007, 05:41 AM
- - treydawgs4g63T   i can ask him. If you would wanna do a staight up...   Nov 1 2007, 07:48 AM
- - turbohcar   Sounds like a nice tow rig Marcus. Pics or Die...   Nov 2 2007, 08:04 PM
- - awd4kicks   Check out the new thread for a picture of the rig....   Nov 4 2007, 09:36 PM
- - awd4kicks   Hmmm... You may have to fix the coolant leak and t...   Nov 11 2007, 08:02 PM
- - awd4kicks   Well it looks like this year’s focus will be on ro...   Feb 16 2008, 09:22 PM
- - treydawgs4g63T   I dont think getting your car in the 10's is t...   Feb 17 2008, 12:46 PM
- - awd4kicks   QUOTE (Spyonu2007 @ Feb 17 2008, 03:32 PM)I...   Feb 17 2008, 12:52 PM
- - awd4kicks   QUOTE (treydawgs4g63T @ Feb 17 2008, 06:46 PM...   Feb 17 2008, 01:28 PM
- - kapoosh   I'm actually using Megan racing coilovers on t...   Feb 19 2008, 07:55 PM
- - awd4kicks   Thanks Kapoosh. I'd like to take you up on ch...   Feb 19 2008, 08:08 PM
- - wortdog   I bought a set of the Megans as well, for $90...   Feb 19 2008, 10:48 PM
- - awd4kicks   Back to the brakes... I've got the correct ad...   Mar 19 2008, 08:14 PM
- - natedogg   Good info on the brake booster vacuum line. I...   Mar 19 2008, 09:44 PM
- - awd4kicks   Well it's ben a LONG time since I have updated...   May 31 2008, 06:15 PM
- - awd4kicks   Done. Got a new starter and we are back up and ru...   Jun 1 2008, 06:59 PM
- - ncgalant   Good to hear Marcus. I've been by your house ...   Jun 1 2008, 08:25 PM
- - awd4kicks   Haha I'm on number 6 of 6!   Jun 1 2008, 09:22 PM
- - black92_tsi_awd   good news! did you end up getting a parts sto...   Jun 1 2008, 10:42 PM
- - SCCA Stang   I don't know anything about $80 brake flu...   Jun 2 2008, 03:28 PM
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