Did you check the heater hoses between the engine and the firwall? I had one split in an old Cavalier I had. Couldn't find the leak by looking at it. It sprayed water everywhere. I had to actually lay under the car with it running to find the spray..not a fun diagnosis!!

Ive had this happen to me once already, only mine would start to overheat at idle, but once i was moving it cooled back off. But when i raised the hood after shutting the car off, it was an obvious hissing noise and a steamfest under the hood.

Well, I would think that this is a problem but, there are no visible puddles, leaks, or otherwise on the ground or engine bay while it was running. Good thought though.

I had the same problem a while back, overheating, loss of coolant, no visable leaks so I thought headgasket. Well turned out that the underside of my radiator hose was cracked where the clamp was before the block. The coolant would just run on the block and burn off, but I didn't see any smoke.

Interesting point badbu, I'll make sure we check that one for sure.

Recalling what Rob discovered inside the engine -white plugs and moisture in the exhaust section- i began to wonder something.

Say the car had an external leak in whateverthehell it was. This causes the loss of fluid and overheating, but could the resulting steam and moisture also be drawn into the intake in a large enough amount to result in the condition that Rob came across?

Basically, the question is: does the engine HAVE to have an internal leak to cause the fouled plugs and moisture in the exhaust section? Just food for thought.

GRRRRrrrrrrr.....the problems continue. Well, Rob was gracious enough to help me get the car running late last night. Unfortunately, I'm afraid things still aren't totally fixed. It runs good, drives good, but the HVAC does not work at all and the fans aren't kicking on when it gets hot. Not only that but it does get a bit hot still. It will stay straight up and down for a bit, then get almost halfway between hot and normal, then the thermostat opens and it cools back down to normal. It does this every 30 seconds which to me is a bit abnormal. If it were the middle of the day on a 90*+ day then no, I wouldn't worry about it but it was about 40* out last night and it was still doing it. Since the fans won't kick on themselves I've got the vent turned up with the A/C button on so that they will both run full time. I've tried turning them off and it still makes no difference to the car. It runs good, just not like it should.

BTW, I put a new aftermarket Modine radiator with metal end tanks, a new water pump, new radiator and heater core hoses, new 180* thermostat, new timing belt tensioner, new harmonic dampener, no A/C, vaccum lines eliminated, black canister eliminated, 4-layer Mitsu headgasket, ARP headstuds........etc etc etc. While trying to burp it last night the car kept wanting to overflow over top the thermostat housing. It wasn't a "burp" it was more like a steady flow like if the thermostat was letting just a little bit of water out at a time. The overflow bottle was not taking any of the extra into the tank and coolant kept overflowing over the housing so we just put the cap back on. If anybody has any advice, post it up please.

And my logger still won't connect to the ECU!

I got an extra one we can use this weekend if you got time to go to Nates. I will have it with me just in case you come. I will bring an extra logger also. try hitting the reset button on the back, and then reinstall the software. But make sure you get mmcd out before you reset, ok.

Well, I did reset the logger before I put the new MMCD on it but I'll try deleting, resetting, and reloading the software. My cable's kinda crappy so it may be the cause of my problems. It's the kind that you have to plug into the individual contacts on the diagnostic port but, it was a steal of a price.

I probably won't make it to Nate's but, if you're going up I-55 to I-74 (about the only way to get to Peoria from Springfield) you're going to be going right through Bloomington, and I'm only about 15 miles from there. I can meet you in town if you want and just pick you up from there. Logging is probably the least of my worries right now though. I just want it to run at the proper temperature.

BTW, last night when we initially started it up #3 injector was making a loud knocking noise, almost like a diesel injector. I couldn't connect to the ECU I had in the car so I hooked up my spare and the injector quit making noise but the logger still wouldn't connect. Don't ask me why, but it made it quit.

I'm going through Lincoln not Bloomington Brett. At Lincoln I go left to Peoria instead of right to Bloomington. I will meet you there if you would like. I let you borrow a cable, If your willing to drive.

Hmmmmmm.....Might have to take you up on that one. I really want to get this temperature problem fixed before I do any extensive driving though. Can you UPS it to me if I send you some money? This is for the Palm IIIc correct?

Uhm did you connect it to the right pins? Just asking because I know that I have done it before.
You could always catch a ride with Kazz5, He is coming up on saturday. Or does he not live near you?
I'm just thinking it's going to cost one way or another. But saturday is a lot closer than tues. or weds. of next week.

And yes it for the Palm IIIc.

It is connected to the right pins, I made sure of that. I believe Kazz lives in Peoria as well. Time for the logger doesn't concern me so much, it's the temperature that bothers me right now and I can get by with the stock gauge for now.

Pm me with your address, I will get it to you one way or another.

Pressure test the system if it drops then you have a head gasket problem. Just a quick $0.02

Tried that... the autozone rental unit didn't have the necessary adapter to fit the car. Brett held the seal and we got it to hold 10psi for a few seconds until his arm gave out...

I really don't think it's a cooling system problem at this point. I wonder if one of the temp sensors is bad. I've got some spares if you want to try that brett. Might also check the relays and fuses since the hvac stuff wasnt' working.

I also have spares of all the sensors on the t-stat housing if you'd like to borrow one for diagnostics. Let me know.

Fuses will be checked tonight. I think it's just going to be me in the garage with the car tonight trying to figure this crap out. I DO know that the sensor that's plugged into the bottom of the radiator is a used one that I pulled off a 1.8L car but they are listed under the same part number. It may be bad as well.

Is there ANY way I could have mistakenly put thethermostat in upside down? I know there's a notch you have to fit it into but I just got to thinking, that's the only part that hasn't been replaced under Rob's supervision so, I figured I'd ask. The spring portion is down and the nipple portion is sticking up. I should have consulted the manual first but I just put it back together in the same orientation the one I took out was in.

That's the way they show it here- http://vfaq.com/index-main.html

How old is your radiator cap? It could be bad also.

Actually, I pulled it out and checked that also....

Radiator cap is brand new.

If you need anything for the a/c call me. I stripped mine out when I put my motor in. And everything is perfect, fuse block included.

Could it possibly be that the thermostat didn't like it when I overheated it on the interstate? I've got a brand new OE thermostat for a backup if that's the case.

180* stat that's in it is a Duralast from Autozone

Girlfriend would probably appreciate it but, it won't be going back in for awhile. Soonest would be next summer. I am interested though!

Swap it if you got the time. And it couldn't hurt anything. Well...... We are talking about you though Brett J/K!

Thanks I think. I'll try swapping it out tonight probably.

Well, no blown fuses at all. Checked all of them. I'm thinking when I ran the car basically out of coolant it may have hurt the thermostat somehow. If not, I really am clueless. I figure there's only three things that can be wrong in a cooling system besides the hoses and radiator. The waterpump(new), the thermostat(new 180*), and the radiator cap(new).

Unless that is, if there's something making it exceptionally hot. Wednesday night I started the car up initially. It sounded like cylinder 3 injector was not firing correctly. It was ticking extremely loud. I swapped out the ECU with my spare just to see if I could get the Palm to connect and the ticking stopped. I thought maybe it was a problem with the ECU. Now I'm not so sure.

Tonight I found someone that wanted to play. Namely, a WS6 Trans-Am. I went to pass HER, she floored it, I downshifted to fourth (not a low enough gear) went from about 4.5k and it started cutting out. Cutting out like fuel cut. Mind you, I'm running a line straight from the intake manifold to the FPR. No T fittings or extra vaccum lines because those have been eliminated. Boost gauge shows I'm only running 11psi of boost (down from the 16-17psi I was running) so it's not because I don't have enough fuel. MAS is stock and unhacked. It cut-out like that about three times on the way to about 7k before I let off. Not sure if it's an injector failing to fire or not, but it could explain a lean condition if that's the case. Of course, my logger isn't working either so I can't tell if it is or not.

Did you do a couple of 'wot' before you desided to take on this car? Th ECU was probably trying to set the air/fuel ratios while you where trying to run her. I have noticed that when mine reset or adjust it stutters and sounds like I'm out of fuel.
Try to tighten all your ic piping. You might have to break down and do a boost leak test.
As for your over heating problem I am out of ideas. Did you double check the fan plug in?

HG is exactly the same one that Slowboy sells on their site. I used the same exact part number that they list on their site when I ordered it. So, I'm confident it's the right one. ARP's are tourqued to the specs that they suggest.

I'm thinking maybe you might be right Budmann. Or at least I'm hoping so.

BTW, the stock boost controller is still being used so that may account for the low boost.

This one

http://www.slowboyracing.com/more.php?id=1079&

Don't know. It was decked anyway though, so that rules out warpage.

It's not loosing coolant anymore, right? Just running warm and cycling too often? I'd swap that stat out, and get some sort of logger on it. I'm thinking it's runing lean for some reason, causing it to run warm. Sounds like it's definately better than it was when we started.

And the logger and wires should be there today. Dumb blondes are not so dumb I guess Brett. Because you really do need it now, Huh?
Just so everyone knows, My girlfriend, AKA The dumb blonde, Had my logger shipped for Saturday delivery. And then has the nerve to come out and bitch because it cost so much, ! I couldn't help but laugh at her. And Brett don't worry about the shipping cost. It's on her.

No, it's not loosing coolant anymore, just running warm and not cycling soon enough. I changed the t-stat out and I'm waiting to start it up this morning. I'll be into town here in a little bit to get the logger cable.

Well, everything started out great. I started the car up, let it run. It was actually running cooler than straight up and down. I was soooo excited to find that it was running cooler. I took a pic, and then was on my way into town to return some parts and head for LeRoy. I got about three miles into town and it started getting hot and cycling again. Needless to say, I was a bit pissed. I did find out that it is making more boost than the 11psi I stated before. It makes 11psi very quick at about 3.5k or so. Full boost doesn't come on till later so I'm thinking I may have a small boost leak. Either way, it no longer bucks and spits, I believe it was just the ECU creating it's fuel map. This cooling thing has got me puzzled though. It doesn't matter if I'm running hard or not, while cruising at 3k, 55-65mph it keeps cycling.

Quick question, when I tried burping the car, it always just seems to start overflowing before it gets hot. Am I supposed to let it overflow like this until it gets to regular operating temp? It never lets air bubbles out, just overflows. Though, I haven't left the cap off till it got up to regular operating temp yet. Seemed to me that the T-stat was letting a little bit of water out and never any air.

Yes it well flow over and just let it run through like that about two or three times.and then top it off and cap it.
That's how I burp my car. And then I rub it's belly and tell her how good she was.

Oh, you're supposed to do that to the car?!?! No wonder my wife's been pissed lately.

I'll try that tomorrow then. Thanks

Well, now that I've got a logger that's working properly (I think the settings were just screwed up on mine) I got a chance to log the car. With the OE thermostat in it it's staying at a constant 203-206*. I think the gauge isn't working properly because that's what I read the whole time no matter what the gauge was doing.

I am knocking quite a bit though. Up to 31 counts once and usual peak was 20 counts. Not sure what's going on with that. It's mostly at cruising speeds (around 2500 rpm) and the high, low, and mid trims are all reading a constant 81.2% and the O2 sensor is CONSTANTLY reading 2.03V. Don't ask me why, the O2 sensor is brand new.

Thanks for all the help guys!

Temp sounds a little high but not too bad. Mine runs about 185-190. If it remains constant, it's probably OK.

O2 voltage shouldn't be over 1V, I didn't think it was possible to generate a 2 volt reading. 2V is probably giving the ECM fits trying to correct for a WAY rich condition, explained by the 81 fuel trims.

The knock could be Rich knock...

I'm no expert, just some thoughts.

what program are you logging with? if your using the MMcd, it has 2 reading for o2, one is o2f, the other is o2r, on mine constantly reads that, you go by what it says for o2f i believe. thats what it does on mine, not sure why it even gives another reading, that doesnt even change at all

And the 02voltage is as it's read off of the Front 02 reading. This is correct right?

I'm glad to see you have it working. Was it just the cord or did you have to use my logger also?

Well, last night it was just the cord but, this morning it was reading really slow on the values. The graph was working correctly but the values were really slow to change. Especially the RPM. Don't know what that's all about but I'll try to play with it more today.

Try shutting down the graph while you log. You are probably trying to log to many parameters at the same time, This will slow the logger down.
And was it left in the car to get cold? Cold weather will slow it down also.