Here we are in a new year 2006 to be exact. A new year calls for change and so I have. I have changed from the 1G DSM. A fine car that it was in it's six years of Graves service. I chose to trade the ole'girl for a 2G.
Now this 2G is a great car. It has sleek body lines and more options. I can see everything that I have ever wanted in a DSM when I look at this 2G. I have only dreamed of owning one of these. Now the day has come that I do.
I have done some hard soul searching trying to decide what to do with the motor. I have priced many different rebuild kits, rebuilt motors, short blocks, long blocks, you get the idea. And none could stay within my budget.
As most of you know I started a project called "Fireball"! Well guess where the donor heart is going to come from. I saved myself alot of money making this decision.

Here is a list of the thing that I am purchasing for this new project of mine. I am probably forgetting something.

• 3" exhaust from belittle
• 255 walbro lph fuel pump
• 450cc injectors poopshit!
• DSM Link
• Eprom ECU
• 2G MAFS
• Fidanza flywheel
• Sony Vaio for DSM Link
• Hallman mbc Thanks to akamiami!
• Tubular exhaust manifold Thanks to asiankid!
• Tubular O2 housing
• Lunar boost gauge
• Lunar A/F gauge
• 1G bov
• 14b poopshit!

Like I said before I did alot of soul searching on this setup and it was and is in my budget. So now all that is left is getting it put together. That should start some time in the next week. I have the engine here and ready to pull. I just have to wait for the check to come in, LOL. Taxes, anticipation is KILLING me.

I am open to comments on what I have decided to do. I have strong shoulders, give it to me. I honestly think I have a reasonable setup for what I was looking for in the beginning.

Thanks for taking the time to read this long boring thread!

You'll want to add a AFPR to that list.

Also, skip the a/f gauge and go for an EGT, you'll get more usefull info out of that. Most people agree that the a/f is just some blinky lights.

I asume you've got some i/c piping to go with the FMIC?

That motor got a good timing belt on it? Now's the time to replace it if it's questionable!

Plugs and some good plug wires?

Don't leave out all the little tune up and maintanance things... that crap can add up in a hurry.

OH, and you'll probably want some spare parts laying around for when you start breaking stuff....

Don't buy that puck disc unless you want to break your tranny. The ACT organic disc works very well.

Why do you have a 2G Maft and a 3" GM listed? You only need one.

Will you still need a translator for the GM Maf even with the DSM link?

Well guys I have a AFPR and a new timing belt kit to put on it. I just have to buy a tensioner now. Plugs, wires and all the little misc. stuff has not been forgotten about.
As for the way I worded the 2G maft, I was talking about a translator for the 3" GM Mafs. Sorry I confused people, I thought that's what it was called.

Thanks for all the input so far guys.

Which AFPR do you have?

I am going to run my ebayer unless it shows signs of problems. Then I will buy one that is worth the money.

I thought it was giving you problems at the track?

I am thinking it was an ECU problem in my 91, not sure until I can play with it.

I did have a interesting question threw at me today. Why a GM Mafs? I replied that I prefer the blow through setup to the draw setup. Then they asked what the benifits were to having it over a stock 1g or 2g mafs. I don't know the answer to that question. Could someone answer that for me? I like the blow through for the bov being able to be open atmosphere.

When you start running big boost and large airflow, you'll run into the upper limits of the 2G and especially 1G MAFs metering ability.

From what I understand, the limit of the 2G stock MAF is around 400hp. The 2G flows 30% more air than the stock 1G. The GM MAF is a lot less restrictive and still allows you to run the Karmann style sensor in conjunction with the stock computer. The 1G sensor tends to be a major restriction, even on the stock turbo.

BTW, I've got a hacked (properly) 2G MAF with a cone filter kit, and hard intake pipe that fit directly on your car. $50 for you, I bought it for $75. If it doesn't work, I'll send you your money back.

No thanks Brett. I have a Gm Mafs already. I guess I just confused everyone with the way I said 2G maft. I meant to say 2g gm maf translator. But I do appreciate the offer man and the deal.
Are you supposed to take the honeycomb out off the GM mafs? I see in sale ads where everyone states that IT STILL HAS HONEYCOMBS.

No, don't take that out. It works just fine and dandy the way it comes to you.

Thanks Goat! It's setting on top of my fish tank right now. And I have been stairing at sence I got it over a month ago.

The GM MAF works essentially the same way the stock MAFs do. The screen has to straighten the vortexs' in order for the sensor to read them correctly.

Thanks Brett, You also helped me figure out how it goes in, LOL. I appreciate your help man.
What is a good set of plug wire to get?

Magnecor wires seem to have a good rep. I have the 8.5mm wires and I think they added like 75hp because they are red!

Honestly, it depends on what you believe in. I'm a man of physics (or I like to think so). There is a spark plug wire thread in DSMTuners that illustrates an independent test of different wires by one of the members. The conclusion? MSD offers the best wire in terms of the least resistance, followed by Accel's high end wires(which are the ones that I have, $70 wires). Magnacore was one of the worst, but it had one of the best radio suppression ratings. Radio suppression keeps the electronics in your car from getting fried by the radio frequency spark energy produces (this is how I understand it) but with good suppression comes a price, which is resistance. The lower the resistance, the more spark energy the wire can transmit.

Actually that's not quite correct. The stock MAFs are Karman Vortex meters that work by using a sonic signal across the plenum inside the MAF. The variance of the sonic reading shows how much air is flowing through the MAF. This kind of MAF also requires an integrated temp and baro pressure sensor.

A GM MAF is a hotwire MAF. It is constantly trying to keep its wire(s) at a constant temperature. The voltage that it has to supply to the wire to keep it at its preset temperature determines airflow, air temp, and air density all at the same time. The cooler the air molecules, the more the air molecules, or the denser the air molecules, the more voltage will be supplied to keep that wire hot.

This analog voltage signal is seen by the translator which converts it to the frequency signal that our stock MAF would normally output so the DSM ECU has the correct input for mass air flow.

Whoops! Looks like I've stumbled across some misinformation again. Thanks for the correction Nate.

that half-assed test was thoroughly discredited by an informed member of that board if you continued to read the thread beyond the initial post. judging an ignition wire by the measured or reported resistance per foot is about as accurate as determining how tasty an apple is by it's color.

So more or less buy what I think is right for my application?

I've used the same set of Accel's for the past 5 years and have never had an issue with them. Or you could always go with a COP setup.

I thought about that Nate, But the woman is pissed now because I am buying all this stuff for my car, . But I think I will try the ones I have first then replace if needed.

I just wanted to let Turbohcar and Natedogg know. I posted what you guys told me about the mafs on the other site that I freaquent. LOL, They say bullshit.

Excuse me while I bow down to whoever you just quoted off another forum. Obviously they are a superior Intarweb Ninja and whipped me with his words. I lay merciless on the floor next to the keyboard, help me...

I'm quoting directly on a "somebody told me this, I don't have any verifiable sources, it's just what I've been told" basis. Natedogg is the King of Krunk. He, 99% of the time, has actual facts and research to back up his opinion, and therefore I bow down in his presence....under the table.....

I'm the one that said the 2G MAS was limited to 400hp, not Nate. Sue me for being wrong(if I am). Here's one that will really make him mad, "the GM MAFT will support more horsepower than that piece of crap 2G MAS". OOOOOHHHHHH!!!! How do you like that one?!?! Your mother!!

I don't know about any specific hp numbers, but I do know you can overrun the 2G MAF's. How bout a link to the thread?

Also, the phrase 'big boost' is pretty relative. There's no specific definition there. I should have just left it at big airflow, but big boost + big turbo = big airflow. I know "big boost" isn't necessary for quick runs. I made my 12.02 run at 23-24 psi. Boost has less significance on hp output than actual airflow does. 25 psi on a 14b is a lot different than 25 psi on a GT35R.

If I had known you were going to post my words on another forum for people I don't know to pick apart, I would have been more careful about how I worded it. We are a tight knit group here and I know most of the people on here personally so they get the gist of what I'm saying from experience.

Exactly.

I don't want to make you guys mad. It wasn't for that, these guys on Gateway are just giving me shit because I want to run a blow through system.
I myself have seen peoples numbers on the track that have almost the same mods, but not mafs. And from what I have seen people that run the GM mafs have better numbers.
I am sorry if I have offended you guys. I do take your words as gold, as I am not very familiar with the setup. I promise I will not do that again.
And the quote came from dsmnightmare, as he is the owner/operater of GatewayDSM.org. and a member on our site also. Thanks guys and sorry once again!

You do understand that having a MAF doesn't mean you have to run a blowthrough setup, right? Many members on this board are running a draw-through setup, and things are just fine. Nate can give you some solid theory on the pros-cons to both. Just wanting to have a bov vented to atmosphere is pretty lame IMO. The 1g cbv is rock-solid and much cheaper than aftermarket.

Agreed.

I'd like to hear any arguments on blow through vs draw through maf setups. I haven't figured out how I'm going to do my setup yet.

Yeah well, My setup has just changed all together. Not because of what you guys are saying. But because of the BOSS! I had to give up the turbo, and injectors so far.
God only knows what she wants me to give up next! Maybe my left or right juggular!

I have updated what is going to be on my car. SUX!

Ummm... Yeah. Big Air flow and big boost are both relative. I don't plan on running any over 30psi on my GT3052 and I call that both big boost and Big air flow. Aparently that is small potatoes in the eyes of some.

PS: You really need to be careful about taking one response from a thread out of context. I very rarely trust one opinion on a web site anyway unless I know the person or their experiences. Most people outspoken enough to blurt out the first answer usually just like to hear themselves talk (or uhm... type).

For some theories on draw-through vs. blow-through check out this thread.

http://www.dsmcentral.com/invision/index.p...st=0&#entry5567

So should I still buy a wide band O2 for this stocker?

Blow through works great on the Buick, 3 inch sensor with 3 inch pipes. Throttle response picked up also. Most stock 2G MAF's overrun somewhere around 450whp, some as high as 500whp, hacked ones can obviously go higher. 1G MAFs can be overrun by a healthy EVO III 16g.

^^^^ He said it not me!

J/K. Eric, a.k.a. Wortdog, is an engineer in the making and he is definitely a dependable source as well.

not sure if my opinion here can help or not.... I am definately not in any kind of league, engineering wise, as nate or eric, but I am currently running a 3" GM MAF and a translator setup as a draw through by NC Galant and it seems to work good.... I have had no problems with it.

as far as your spark plug wires are concerned, I am using NGK (8mm, I think) wires on my car for the past 2+ years with no problems out of them either.... they seem to work well and would probably work well for you too...

just my .02

Ben

Q>

I'd seriously re-think your mod list if you're budget's getting axed. Things like the DSM Link and the wideband o2 are great tools, but may be overkill in your situation. I think if I were you, I'd find a set of 550's or 650's and a nice evo III 16g along with the supporting mods and shoot for some low 12 sec 1/4's. A lot can be done for very little with these cars, the reason most of us are here. Just seems to me like you're starting to put the cart before the horse...

Huh, That is what she said Rob, lol. The DSM Link is still on because it will make this 6 bolt swap alot easier. Well with out check engine lights. I am going to start stock, Show her this damn thing is going to run and then I will start mods.

I have a couple more questions I need to ask.

1. Should I leave the water lines on the turbo? I have heard a couple of different things about it. I thought it was there to cool the turbo? But I have heard people run without them also.

2. I am going to change the timing belt and all. I have a timing belt kit w/o the tensioner. Precision says the make a manual timing belt tensioner, I was thinking about buying. Good idea or not?

3. This one is for AWD DSM 1. Could you please pm me, I would like to know if you would do my timing belt for me, and what it will cost me to get it done. Would I need to bring it to you, or could you come to me? Just let me know, please.

Timing belts aren't really that hard, expescially when they're out of the car. I'd be more than happy to help if you really think you need it though.

#1. Leave the water lines on the turbocharger. It will help cool the turbo, which helps cool the intake temperature, which helps you make more power with less knock.

#3. Rob does top notch work. Don't let him be modest. He does super work for a small amount of money. He helped me do the headgasket, ARP headstuds, and timing belt on my car (along with all the work on the axles we had to do at 8pm on the side of I-74). Thanks again Rob!

The only time you shouldn't run water lines to your turbo is if your turbo doesn't have fittings for water lines. Some aftermarket turbos have water jackets, some don't. The ones that don't use larger volumes of oil to cool the bearing. All Mitsu turbos have water jackets to help keep the bearing cool.

So should I put a stock rebuild kit in it as well, since I will have it out? I am talking about the one Rob showed me in the other thread. I think it was like $500.00 for the kit. But I don't want to have to get into redoing the block or machining. I figure I have to start somewhere. I don't know, .

Rebuild kit is up to you and how much time you want to spend. It would be smarter to do the rebuild while the engine is out but, if the motor runs fine and you don't have the $500 you might be able to get by with it.

Personally, I would never rebuild a motor without taking it to a machine shop to have it checked out and cleaned up.