Interesting to compare my current graph to the graph I've been targeting. I like the much earlier power delivery and the higher torque level than the target I was shooting for.

Oh and for those that haven't seen this target graph before I plotted the dyno numbers from someones Fairly stock DSM for reference in green at the bottom.

As usual. 3 steps forward and 2 steps back. I felt I was getting crank walk symptoms. When I pulled the splash shield and measured it I found I had .040 crank shaft end play. Max allowable is .007. So tonight I pulled the oil pan and the center main cap. Wow!
I'm seriously surprised the crank or rods have not been making audible noise. That center bearings thrust surfaces are beat. The rotating surface is not beat down but filled with molten bearing.

I feel I can pull the engine and replace the crank with a good unturned crank and new factory bearings. So that's my current project... To find and install a good crank and finish tuning before Victory Day at Cordova.

All I have to say is... damn!

Crebo, you're remarkably persistent man. It takes real courage to continually push against adversity and persevere against the most stern admonishment that mechanical catastrophe can exhibit.

Uh... yeah... What he said... and... That sucks

Yeah that or I'm stupid and stuborn.

Actually, letting the beast go has been thrown around pretty seriously here lately. I feel a bit of accomplishment with the dyno numbers, but it's pretty hollow knowing it didn't last. Besides that I just can not find anything in a reasonable price range that I am interested in. Sure I would take a new C6, an Aston Martin, or a sweet vintage 60's muscle car in pristeen shape, but they are all out of my reach at the moment. And to be honest, AWD has spoiled me to the point I don't like the idea of a car that becomes useless in rainy or cold weather.

Beyond that the dyno numbers have given me more fuel to keep her going. The torque may not be the highest for the HP, but it is the highest I've heard for a 4 cylinder street car. I think this crank swap could be pretty easy assuming the new one is in good shape. Then once I get a boost gage I can trust along with more tuning I plan to blow my targeted Dyno chart out of the water on pump gas and aim for 600whp on race gas.

Yeah, it's a sickness!

I can honestly say that I would have thrown in the towel a long time ago in your situation kicks... kudos for sticking it out.

I always found the Camaro to be MORE fun in that weather............

pick your poison I guess

Let's be honest here, Marcus. Much like the folks that suffered tragedy during Katrina, you must come to the only logical conclusion: God hates your car. You better make peace or repent or something, cause you have got that dude PISSED!!!!

Seriously though, you cause us all to stand by you with mouths ajar in wonderment of your determination and steadfastness. Kudos and a half. (Redeemable for one (1) night of pleasure at the Goat's Pen)

you need a 2.0 or a 2.4 crank?? got the one in the auto, not sure on the shape of it.

Thanks guys..

Mitsu, I need a 2.4 crank. Kris (akamiami) is going to hook me up with his used 2.4 Hyundai 2.4 engine. I'll steel the crank out of that puppy and have an extra block if I need one.

BTW - Getting a semi-powerfull rear wheel drive to get sideway and squirly is easy enough on dry pavement (I didn't say it's not fun)

But I like being able to lay down acceleration runs that are probably within 10ths of my dry pavement runs even when it's wet out with AWD. It's not the safest thing, but it has my interest more than sitting in one spot spinning the tires.

The Goats Pin That's good.

that is true, its easier, and VERY fun


AWD drifto's are quite entertaining as well!

Polished the 2.4 Hyundai crank. Installed it in the new stock bearings last night. So she is on her way back together.

I also spent some time retapping a turbine housing bolt hole where the ex-man bolts always bind up. Then filed the top of the housing flat to cut down on exhaust gas leakage around the turbo.

good power and numbers are around the corner.

I assume you'll be ready by Vicary day...

I'm shooting for it... Just depends on if the car agrees with me or not.

I've been sick all through the weekend. Just started feeling better last night. Well enough that I put the final touches on my crank/engine reinstall.

The install included a new liquid filled fuel pressure gage and a new 0-35psi boost gage to make sure the important items are still in check. If you remember my old boost gage would only read boost in choppy incriments and would max at 23psi on the dyno.

I had a few suprises once I took my first test drives last night and this morning. A very nice attribute she has picked up is smooth-as butter engine performance...aside from the fact that it has no balance shafts. Cruising at 55mph is so smooth now it feels like when I first bought the Talon. That is a nice side affect that I REALLY like. even makes me think about not racing it anymore just to keep it this smooth. Hahaha!

A strange suprise was the fact that when applying the accelerator I was abble to slap 35psi on the new boost gage without hardly trying! Um...wow. I purposely left the boost controller at the setting I had when dynoing to verify where I was at. I did change the hose routing and tightened up the connection between the ex-man and turbine housing... But dayum! 35psi!? NCgalant and I tuned and tuned on that with very little knock at WOT. There is no way I could have been running that much boost on pump gas!

Anyway things are looking good to make it to the autocross this weekend. I just need to redo the tune.

That's a whole lotta love! Did it peg the 35psi mark or just gradually meet it like it's right at 35psi? Kinda makes me wonder if you're not running more if you pegged that gauge.

I believe she was going to go over 35. The gage just swung from 0 straight to 35psi before I could let of at half throttle in third gear. Cool, but I'm not in the market for another rebuild right now.

I only notice some vibration around idle after I removed my balance shafts. Now I don't notice anything anymore. Are attributing the smoothness to the new crank?

Glad to hear the beast is back running, go easy on it until Vicary Day!

Yeah...the crank and bearings are the only major things I changed. so I can only attribute the smoothness to the crank and possibly a better fit in the stock bearings.

The only vibration I get is down between like 1800-2000RPM and 2500RPM where my dash is doing some anoying rattling. The crank is internally balanced, my rods and pistons were all balanced and my old dampener still looks to be in great shape. So I'm hoping that is just the harmonics of the engine without the B-shafts.

You're running poly hard mounts right? That could be causing a wierd harmonic and the noise.

I window-welded my mounts so they're stiffer than normal but not as bad as the poly type mounts.

My vibration is right in the steering wheel, no at least it dosn't cause any rattles.

Yeah polly mounts, but they areplyably, not rigid like cutting board.

And now I've got the boost turned down to a more pump gas safe 25psi. We will be tuning Thursday night.

2.3's and 2.4's vibrate more than 2.0's as a rule, I wouldn't worry about it.

Thanks for the reasurance Wotrdog. Like I said otherwise this is the smoothes running engine I've had in a while.

Well, I do believe I'm done for the year fellas. I've used all the bandaids I could come up with to make this thing run.

At the begining of a WOT run the bottom end let go tonight at about 3500-4000RPM before it even really started to wind up. It appeared to only be one rod as I seen it fly up above my rear spoiler, but it did a lot of damage on the way out.

By chance I spoke to Darrel tonight. He said that he had the exact same thing happen to him before he even got into the power band. On his motor he found that one of the rods were slightly bent from a temporary hydrolock situation. The bend in the rod fatiged and gave out just as mine did. I could have bent a rod when I bent a couple valves in cylinder three earlier in the year I guess. Incredible... It sounds right but I don't know how I could have accounted for this unless I built an entirely fresh motor everytime I had any semi-serious problem.

I will have to really come across a change of heart to ever try building a DSM motor again. I think I've given the good ol' college try. These motors just can not take the HP & Torque I'm trying for without EVERYTHING being absolutely perfect. I can't get things any more perfect than I have been doing. So I'm probably heading back to the V8's in some form or fashion.

I have to thank NCGalant for his continued support and shared head scratching over the tuning of this 2.4. I also thank everyone here for their support todate.

The End... For now.

Ouch, sorry to hear about that man , kinda makes me wonder how my own build will turn out.

Oh my god, Marcus. I can't believe it. It sounded so promising, like everything was finally going your way.

I'm at a lost on what to say. I would like to say to hang in there, but you kept your car unoperational for almost 3 years, so, I don't know. The Nissans are pretty cool. C'mon, let's play with Nismo's together!!

Good luck with whatever you do, dude

Damn Marcus! That's a bad deal. I can't beleive the luck you've had, but I'll be damned if you didn't stick it out over the long haul.

Instead of giving up on the DSM, maybe rethink the project as building a SCCA (open track or parking lot) racer with a milder motor instead of all out high HP drag car.

I don't think I could feel much more sorry for you Marcus.

Everything was back to normal and I thought we were finally going to see a clean run, then we ran over a rod.

I say JB weld the block back together and give the autox hell on 3 cylinders

That absolutely sucks man. You've put more blood sweat and tears into that car than anyone I know on any DSM and the Talon has done nothing but spit back in your face every time. What a bitch!

I certainly understand why you'd want to call it quits for a while though. If I were you I would have thrown in the towel a long time ago. Huge props to you for all the hard work and effort.

Marcus,

Here's a bit of advice from somebody who's been there. Keep your car, buy a low-mile stock shortblock, put a cometic headgasket on it with ARP head studs, eliminate balance shafts, and run it with all your hardware with a nominal amount of boost. This "easy to build" shortblock will be 400 flywheel horse capable and be plenty of motor for an autocross badass. You may need to step down to a smaller turbocharger as well, but you'll still be able to save money and have a wicked little machine.

I bet your wondering, why is Brett "the traitor" telling me this? Well, given your desire for your project and your goals you've had for so long, I don't think they're unrealistic with a build like this. Super16G whooped a turbo Porshe years back in a straight line with just his super16G and a mild build like this one. A smaller, quick spooling turbocharger, would be best for autocross while still retaining good gas mileage so you can still afford to drive it to work now and again. You're sooooo very close Marcus and I hate to see you give up now. I know you don't want to give it up and V8 is not the route you want to go with the goals you've got in mind. Come on pal, use your head (don't be like Rob, the obsessive compulsive car trader!).

Either way you decide though, we'll still like ya!

Hey, I resemble that!!

Really sorry to hear this Marcus. I'm not going to give you any crap for deciding to throw in the towel. You've definately put your heart and soul into this car, and it just didn't work out. Good luck with whatever you do next!! Hopefully you'll stick around and keep the site going.

I was wondering if you were going to catch that. J/P buddy!

you have got to be f*cking kidding me. I can't belive it let go again. I wouldn't blame you for calling it quits. how ever if you change your mind i have the 6 bolt from my auto, I'll give you a good deal

Thanks guys.

And Turbohcar, although your 'advice' seems a bit out of place I appreciate the sentiment. Just keep in mind this is not really sentimental to me, just unfortunate and frustrating as I'm sure it is easy to see.

And for the record ask Super16g who beat his black bitch with a maroon 14b AWD car twice at a farm meet. And I never said that I was or was not selling the Talon. And yes I do want a V8. Hmmm

How about a v-8 powered rwd Talon!!!

How's your fabrication skill???

Marcus,

My dad always told me if the horse throws you, You get back on and ride it. I know partially how you feel with my car. But I cannot say it has been as long as yours. I know you are not giving up on this car. Sometimes we just have to walk away for a couple of weeks, months and think the proccess through again.
Good luck with getting her back together. I am pulling for you. You and everyone else here on the board knows that this is feasable. It is just going to take the right parts to get r done!

INCREDIBLE! I finally looked under the Talon today. The carnage is from cylinder #3 ONLY, just as I theorized after hearing Darryl's perception of the event.

#3 was the cylinder that came in contact with the valves earlier in the year which must have caused a slight bend in that one rod. I wish I would have taken the time to know this before hand.

The carnage is not quite as horrific as I imagined since it all came out of a 1-2" wide slot in the oil pan and block, but it does include some pricey items:

Minimum parts required to rebuild:

An engine rebuild...
$350-(1) New set of Aftermarket rods (#3 is in half)
$400-(1) New set of aftermarket pistons and rings (#3 is messed up now)
$400-(1) 2.4 Block machined with oil squirters drilled and installed(2"x3" window hole)
$50-1) New oil pan (1"x5" long hole)
$75-The crank may be salvagable but would need checked and maybe machined
$75-250-Check the head for valve and surface damage
$150-Entire new set of bearings
$100-Entire new set of gaskets

$50-Repair of a hole or two in the new Fluidine radiator
$5-Repair of a hole or two in the driver front tire

$1655 Total destruction


My fabrication skills are pretty good and I have friends that can do what I cant. a LS1,2, or 6 with a 6 speed sounds pretty good. Add some turbo action a healthy rear end and drive shaft with some transmission tunnel modification... That would be sweet.

Damn Marcus...that's a hell of a pricey engine meltdown

Want to buy a 12 sec 14b setup???


A ls6 would move a Talon down the track pretty nicely, and $1600 would get you going pretty quick down that route.

I'd rather see the Talon return under it's "normal" powerplant, but a V8 sure would be a interesting exercise in fabrication and originality. Downside would be duration of the build up.

Damn Marcus, I leave town for a few days and you go to blowin' stuff up! I have to say that I have admired your determination thus far. Perhaps you are ready for a change but only time will tell. Maybe the fire will strike you again in the middle of the cold winter. Sorry for your loss

as to your statement bud.... I have always said the same thing, however... in the case of kicks... his horse has thrown him several times.... in his cercumstance.... I say, shoot the horse and get a better one....

however kicks, it looks as though you may just climb back up again after all... brave, very brave... I would have thrown in the towel a long time ago, matter of fact, I have come close several times and I haven't had near the bad luck you have... glad to hear that the Talon may run once again after all.


BTW... take it that this is why I didn't see you at the autoX???

Hahahaha... Now that's funny, I don't care who you are!

And yeah, NC & I were tuning the Talon for the autocross and...whatever when she shucked a rod. No Auto-x for me and my dad decided to hold off for a day of morning the POS Talon.

Here is a pic of the carnage NC & I could pick-up off of the road after the rod let go! You gotta love the beating that rod took. WOW!

Commence Rod Explosion Dodging

Hahaha...No kidding!

I want to see pix of were it came out at

Ok, I've had some time to cool down and re-evaluate my opinion of my Talon and DSM's in general.

After talking to a number of folks and doing some studying, I feel that DSM's are still one of THE greatest all around, all-year sports cars ever made for the money... to a certain power level. My opinion is that power level is somewhere between 300 and 400HP economically speaking.

I do know that DSM's can and are made to support more power. However, I now feel that to do this effectively a corresponding budget needs to be implimented to keep things together & rolling. If I were to go big again, I would want to use brand new equipment built for the sole purpose of high HP. I would still be looking at a stroker motor, but I would use an aftermarket crank, a set of High end rods and pistons with the short block machined and assembled by the companies with DSM racing experience.

In short there is a lot of power that can be pumped through the 4G6x engine, but it all comes down to sticking with a goal that you know you can stick to and afford. In my case that will be the 300-400HP level that I already know produces a lot of smile factor as a driver.

I've currently got Tommy's 2.0 Buscher StageIII short block on the line which is advertized to be good for 700HP. This should keep me in good safe territory and I can not pass up the deal since Treydawg had to pass on it.

So for now I will be working out the details on what to keep and what to reduce in size. In reality if I were still building from the 14b base I would upgrade to an EVO3 16g, but since I already have a used GT3052 I'm considering seeing how it spools up on this motor. If it doesn't spool fast enough I would surely sell it for the EVO3.

I will also need to get a couple more mainstream cams and get rid of my stroker cams as they are too big for the 2.0. I will keep all of my FMIC, radiator and fuel system intact since it will all surely be enough to handle either turbo/engine combo.

Then hopefully I can spend more time driving, tuning, cleaning and upgrading things like suspension and etc.

Sounds like a plan stan...