Very cool Marcus!! Keep up the good work!

Last night I finally built up the courage to do an all out stutter box launch to study how well it realy worked against the vette and future competitors. I was surprised to find out that after the initial Higher RPM hit, there was a considerable (2 second or so) bog before the turbo BEGAN to spool back up. One more practice launch with my tried and true cyclic-reving (Leave while the tach is in an upswing) proved to be much more attractive. I got the good old mind melting, nearly black-out condition on launch and an imediate sweep of the tach all the way to the 8K redline! Then a powerful smell of burnt rubber. Went back to view the launch pad...there were some nice black marks, but nothing after first gear. Good enough I think I may have put myself at least a car closer to the vette I raced the other night.

On a sad note, I ran through my makeshift quarter mile with that first trial launch only to end up at about 105MPH again even with good shifting. I don't know if that vette is a lot slower than it sounds and is supposed to be, or my speed-o/quarter mile measurement is way off.

I'm gonna have to go to the track soon so I can find out for sure.

You should be trapping 115-120 easy. When were you going to hit the dyno?

I find the stutter box works better for me when I hold it at about half throttle before launch and quickly ease the clutch out and the throttle in during launch. I've tried holding down at WOT and just releasing the clutch as quickly as I can. That usually ended up bogging me during the launch.

This was on my 2.0 BR500 motor. It might be a whole different story on the gt35r stroker now. I haven't tried it on this motor yet.

I think we are doing similar things on the launch Nate. I just time mine out with reving for some reason. The stutter box was still active obviously and I never needed more RPM than it gave me.

So yeah... RPM's climing to the stutter point. Ease the clutch out until you black out at which point the clutch is fully engaged. Wake-up in time to shift for 2nd gear!

I also noticed with a stutter you need to ease the clutch out, if I just "pop" the clutch the car would bog

I agree Nathan. I would like to at least see 115mph.

I will pan a dyno trip as soon as I can get ahold of R&T's or somebody that can get the job done fairly close.

D.I.D. Racing, Inc. is going to be hosting a FREE dyno day Saturday, April 21st, 2007.

It's going to be on a first come, first serve basis and every car that we dyno will get two free dyno pulls with a wideband oxygen sensor and a dyno graph of the better run. Typically we can do 15-20 cars in a day and the event will start at 9 in the morning and go until at least 5pm. We'll have FREE food and drinks around noon and all dyno #'s will be kept quiet unless you don't mind.

If you're serious about showing up please respond to this post so we can have an idea of roughly how many people to expect at the FREE dyno day.

We're located just north of Joliet. Here's our address -

D.I.D. Racing, Inc.
820 Brian Drive
Crest Hill, IL 60435

www.didrace.com

Thanks Mistsu... I wasn't able to make it up North for that dyno day though.

Even though I've turned the boost down a bit to a max of 22 psi, the knock has been climbinging into the teens and low 20's. I figure this is a side effect of the warmer weather that we have been waiting so long for. I know it's a departure from my former self, but I've been adding fuel in the MID and WOT areas using the MAFT. So far I've got knock down to a max of low teens with three positive clicks in both settings.

Seems surprising to me that I am still seeing knock with such a large intercooler and a much larger and more efficient turbo.

What is your timing before and after knock retard? It might be worth it to visit a dyno just to see and tune your A/F ratio.

The timing map is
4000 13
4500 15
5000 15
5500 16
6000 16
6500 17
7000 19

Knock has always peaked at 6000 give or take and fallen off from there(unless things have changed in the last couple of weeks)

At this point we probably need to take out a degree from 4500-6000. I'd be very interested to see what it is actually running on a WB O2. We are calling for 11.2:1, but that number is probably off. Any ideas/tuning theories would be appreciated.

Running a wideband is probably the best idea I have right now. Like NC said though taking out a degree or two of midrange timing should help as well.

With a wideband you can tune your desired AFR to your actual AFR. If you have the resources to pony up some dough for a wideband you could log it with the pocketlogger I sold you. I know it works with the PLXdevices M-300 WB. That way you could confidently tune in the desired AFR and then tweak the timing from there so you can run as much timing as possible without knocking. With that done, you can be reasonably sure the knock is caused by too much timing advance rather than a an overly lean or rich AFR.

I'm like you though in that I seriously doubt any of that knock is due to high IAT. Your turbo and intercooler combo should be extremely efficient at 22 psi.

Pocketlogger will also work with the AEM unit I bought. You just have to enter the offset correctly so the WB output and the logged data match since pocketlogger "supports" the PLX unit.

As Nate said the wideband is an excelent tuning tool. When I first got mine I thought I was too lean buy the narrowband output. End up being pegged at 10:1.

I agree with the Wide band tuning.

The most knock I see at WOT is 6-8 counts 75% of the time. Near the upper end of the RPM band (Probably 6k like NC said) the count jumps to 13 regardless where I put the MAFT settings.

Another thing I am seeing that I have been unconcerned about for the most part... is part throttle knock. I'm thinking we can fine tune her a little by pulling a few degrees out of the DD maps. It might cut down on fuel mileage, but I see knock as soon as I barely dip into the throttle while cruising at 0 knock and 39 deg. of timing. Instantaniously knock starts climbing rapidly when the excellerator is moved even a smidge.

It's not like this at WOT at all, but as we get the WOT tuned I'm wanting to get the rest of things in line.

I'll check with Andy to see if he still has any Wide bands for sale.

Found the base timing a couple degrees too advanced. So I set it back. Even if it's a bit retarded, I'd rather be safe than sorry at this point.

I found the Taylor #3 spark plug wire off too. That seems all too typical. I made a slight modification to keep the wire on.

I also turned the boost down to 19-20 psi. It still feels like a freight train, but smoother. Still getting single digit knock at WOT especially in the higher RPM, but it's better.

Warmer weather I guess? I still plan to check with a wide band. I think I've checked all the basics that I can.

sounds like you are making good progress!

I welded in a water/alchohal injection nozzle last night so I can combat some of this warm weather knock and maybe get some more power for the street when needed. I have to go through the wiring this weekend, but when it's all said and done I will have my dual stage boost set back up. The lighter WG spring I have in now will allow a low 1st stage psi, but I'm not sure how high it will hold to. I will probably run out of octane before I reach that point anyway. If it works out then I can just save the heavy spring for the 30-35psi that I hope to run on straight race gas when I occasionally hit the track.

I had to snug up my clutch pedal rod again last night. I feel the Clutch master cylinder is definitely on it's way out. I just hope it last through SCDC. Either that or I need to replace it ASAP.

I want to set-up some dyno time to dial in the cam gears, get some street HP numbers and then tune in on the race fuel. However I've done some math and found that it will take me approximately two more hours to go to R&T's in Canton than it would to go to AMS's AWD dyno when you figure in the time to remove and replace the T-case & drive shaft for R&T's two wheel dyno. AMS would cost a bit more, but the WHP numbers would be accurate for AWD and they have much more knowledge of my set-up than R&T's. Hmmm...

Kicks....replace the cylinder before it goes out! You know it will happen right before SCDC!!

I was thinking the same thing Chris.

Spy, I don't think I'm going to put down enough torque to smoke the clutch. It would be a good problem to have in a gross display of power kind of way, but if it goes out I'm sure it will be at SCDC too.

I heard R&T was getting an AWD unit - no?

I'm not sure on that one Kazz. I should call R&T's to verify.

On another note, I have successfully resurrected my water/alchy injection-High/low boost system.

On low boost I'm able to run around at 12-13psi with obviously no worry's of knock any time I'm at WOT. Right now I've got straight alcohol injecting at 20psi where I see small amounts of knock in the higher end of the RPM band. I will be adjusting the high boost setting to see how much psi I can run on BP93 & alcohol injection (AI). This way the AI will come on at 20psi as the boost sweeps up to a level that would normally cause knock on straight 93 octane. Back when we set this system up, Nate & I put in a safety measure to automatically go back to low boost if the water/alcohol level gets too low in the reservoir.

So I'm pretty happy, just getting the AI back up and running. I'll let you know in a couple days whether it helps me attain higher boost levels on 93 octane.

I am UNTOUCHABLE now!

Nah, I'm kidding. The most boost I was able to see over the lunch break with low knock was 23 psi. At temperatures in the mid 80 degree range, that may not be bad. I was still seeing single digit knock after the initial run which was 0-1 count of knock.

I'll have to make sure the AI nozzle didn't get plugged. I have a feeling I will need to take out a few degrees of timing afterall. I was hoping the extra timing would be offset by the cooler temps and additional octane from the alcohol.

The cooler weather that I was originally running 23-24 psi at, should prove to be interesting though. We will have to get together again soon Spy.

CAN'T TOUCH THIS...

Have you tried putting in some water? I'm curious how 100% alcohol works vs 50/50 with water or even 80% alcohol.

Everything I've ever seen points to 100% methanol being the best you can inject for turbo cars. There's a stock block Turbo Trans Am (the 1989 Buick powered one) running high 9's on 65% 93 octane pump gas and 35% methanol. You may just need a larger nozzle than the one your kit came with if you're running into knock as you up the boost.

Pump gas varies in quality so much tankful to tankful that its good to run as high of a percentage of methanol as you can get away with, especially since you have a way of drastically lowering the boost when the tank is empty.

If it is truly more cooling that you need rather than higher octane you may be better off with a mix of water and alcohol. Water has a much higher latent heat of vaporization than alcohol so it takes much more heat out of the air when it changes states from water droplets to water vapor, but then again higher octane lets you put up with higher intake temps.

Do you still have the "schematic" from when we originally designed and built this? I used to have it on my old computer but I've lost it over the years. I wouldn't mind having another copy of it just for reminscent sake.

Yeah I still got it Nate.

I remember when we were trying to remedy the knock issue on my 14b, we got the same results with 50/50 as we did with 100% alchy. I'm sure our tests were less than scientific and trying to remove knock created by a lean condition (stock injectors) is a different kind of problem than today.

Just got done doing some cooler temperature testing. TOO much AI! The engine boggs when the alchy is injected. I found something else common and small that may have been leading to my knock earlier today and maybe for a long period of time. I will test it again tomorrow durring the heat of the day to see what kind of results I get.

Taylor wires! There has to be some issue with the machine that puts the #3 wire together at the Taylor assembly plant. The #3 wire continuously pops off of the plug. I have ordered a new set of Accell wires from SlowBoy based on info the DSMCentral members have recommended.

When I had the laser it ran seemingly fine with one wire in the megaohm range. It would be very possible for you to have a very bad wire while the car still pulls hard.

I've seen the number three wire on Talors set pop off on far too many DSM's for it to be a coincidence. I more or less dissected my #3 wire and it seems the plastic boot protrusion does not allow the electrode connector to seat. It just sinks into the boot when you try to push it on the plug. In my experience the wire goes partly on the plug but not far enough to lock. After some time of hot rodding the car around that plug wire will pop off the plug entirely. A lot of the time the spark still jumps and makes the cylinder fire, but I feel it becomes more erratic as the boost goes up.

good to see you are sorting it out marcus!

Sorting it out... That pretty much sums it all up.
Luckily I find quite a bit of enjoyment out of tweaking, tuning and tracking down issues that may be causing power losses or upgrades that may increase performance on many levels.

In my pre-Race preparation I've replaced the Clutch master cylinder, replaced the Taylor plug wires with Accell wires. I noticed the coil was loose where I mounted it on my intake and found that nearly all the bolts in the upper portion of my FRH intake were loose and two wer missing on the bottom. (This would explain why Spy's TA was able to catch up to me the other day when I was running 16psi on 3.5 cylinders That's the second time this has happened and I know I had lock-tite on them. So now any boost leak that I had at the intake are now taken care of as well.

I need to do some repair and upgrading on the Tial Waste gate tonight. I will also boost leak test the entire system up to around 40psi to make sure she can hold it in. Then goes in the race gas and tuning will resume on Friday night.

All in all I'm pretty happy with the things I have found and taken care of prior to race day so far.

We're going to Cordova tommorrow night...want to hit the track and do some tuning???

Haha...you ran out of steam before you could even pass me at my half boost setting!

Ahh...Betting on the Talon breaking I see.

Well even though your bet is well founded on the Talon's past SCDC no-shows, I will take that wager on the condition that you have to beat my quickest Talon ET with your own Trans Am (With or without Nitrous).

Oh how I wish I could finally see your car put up numbers on the track when it's firing on all cylinders (last time was Midnight Mayhem about 4 years ago when I had the Fuckus).

Good luck, ODT...

Oh yeah, sorry we couldn't meet up over the past weekend

who in their right mind would ever best on a DSM breaking?

I won't be able to make it to the track tonight. I will be tuning though. We will see you there Sunday!

Good luck buddy!! I'll have my fingers crossed for you.... not crossing them for you to run a quick time, but for good luck so you don't break it!!!

Well I now have good brakes even on boost thanks to Mitsu90. We know that I was losing boost into the original brake booster, but even with a fresh one I still can't get above 25psi. She is pulling hard, but I don't know if I'm going to see the numbers that I was hoping for.

I will be racing her what she's got at this time though!

That's possible, I have no idea what it will run. I will hold my end of our wager regardless though. Bring it! Both bottles!

Considering all the factors, I'm happy with the 12.0 1/4 mile passes that I got this past weekend. I have a good idea of where some of the problems were and I just need to decide how much more I'm willing to spend on the old girl to make it anything more than it already is.

Possible issues:
When I assembled my engine I ordered a standard set of Mitsu gaskets from JNZ. In the process I used a couple of stock metal intake gaskets. You know the kind with the raised bead around them? Well these gaskets are between the aluminum head and the phenalic spacer and the aluminum intake. We feel that these gaskets may not be sealing above 25 psi. This will not be the easiest install, but it will be cheap to try felpro paper gaskets with some sealant. So I will be doing this in hopes of getting the boost in the 30-35psi range.

We also suspect that the BOV may not be holding above 25 psi. with the possible intake gasket leak I can not get enough air volume to pressure test the engine to 25 psi or higher to find out. If this is an issue I will simply need to buy a higher pressure spring. Again cheap and easy.

With the boost leak taken into consideration I was still able to hit a best of 119mph which translates to roughly 430whp even with the boost spiking at 25psi and falling to 22-23. This is enough to theoretically put me in the mid 11's. That leads to the other major problem that will require a much more expensive upgrade.

The transmission. I could not get the transmission to shift from 1st to 2nd with any quickness at all this past weekend. In fact the only gear that went in fairly quick on a consistant basis was 3rd, and I crunched it nearly every time. This problem is exagerated by the fact that NCGalant and I turned up the rev limiter to 9000-9500RPM. Shifting up there seems to be impossible for me. I even tried short shifting 1st to 2nd one time at 7000rpm with little improvement. The clutch is engaging great so that's not the issue. And although it took a while to relearn, I got my launches down to where I could really rip it out of first. The 60 ft. times of 1.8 and 1.9 to 2.2 prove that the best launch made no difference without a good shift to second.

So I'm not sure what to do there. I don't want to pay for an all out race transmission. Even buying double synchros for all gears gets a bit pricey. Sadly this problem alone kept me out of the 11's yesterday.

On a good note I can still drive it in the regular RPM band at street boost levels with no problem. So I think... Do I put any more money into it just for the racing aspect?

Oh and I found one other important factor which could have lead to Sunday's lack of 11's.

When I got the Talon back home and started looking it over to make sure everything was ok I found the External dump tube had rotated to a point partially over the lower intercooler pipe! No kidding... There are a few marks on the intercooler pipe that look like the dump tube even hit it like when the whole car was wheel hopping sideways on my second launch of the day. There is a spot on the intercooler pipe about 1/2-3/4" deep onto the pipe where I was blowing the hotest gases possible at it.

So this may also explain why I didn't gain anything when NC and I leaned out the fuel with a different chip. The good news is that I still never seen any knock meaning the 118 octane and big front mount were working well.

I must not have tightened the band clamp on the waste gate enough after I repaired it and replaced the spring.

glad to hear all your hard work and effort paid off sunday! cant wait till the day i can say the same. Sucks that you found the little imperfections you did but atleast , like said before , you got to drive her home!!!

Another thing i was curious of is: I was told that the higher RPM shifts are not as good as the normal RPM shifts because the turbo starts to loose spool after so long. Is this true?

I would also like to mention that www.extrememotorsports.com offers a stage II tranny rebuild for like $1200 , which is a heck of a lot cheaper then SHEP and offers almost the same combination of parts. Maybe you can check it out!

I'd be surprised if it was your BOV that was leaking. I am running the same Tial BOV that you are and am having no leaks beyond 30 psi unless you put a lighter spring in it when you got it.

As far as the intake manifold gaskets I run the felpro's with no sealant and they also hold past 30 psi. Same manifold set up as you w/ phenalic spacer.

I have a feeling the transmission is going to be my limiter as well and I'm in the same boat as you not really wanting to throw any more money into the car. I guess I'll know for sure in a month or so when I'm finally healed up enough to take it to the strip.

Anyway, nice runs man. Good to see you hit a new personal best!

I have not changed the spring in my BOV. So I should be good there.

I will get the new intake gaskets in sometime next week and see how she boost leak tests from there.

Looks like TRE no longer sells upgrade parts only transmission rebuilds. They are cheaper than Shep and Extreme, but makes you wonder about getting the quality that you pay for.

Yeah makes you wonder. I was pleased with my old FWD transmission rebuild TRE did for me back in the day even though it cost an arm and a leg.

Wow...Close call today!

I drove the Talon to work today as I do many days. I went to Josh's tonight after work to drop off his jump pack. As I closed in on my destination, I noticed the smell of burning oil and a thin cloud of smoke behind the car. After I pulled in the drive I got out, popped the hood to check it out. The whole front cross member was covered with oil as was most everything in the front of the engine compartment.

I knew it could be bad, but I knew I wasn't beating on it, so it could be minimal as well. After pouring more oil into it we started it to look for the leak. That was easy to see! One of my 'Push-Loc' hoses had split off of the barb going back into the engine from the oil cooler!!! My expensive 'Push-Loc' hose failed and very nearly could have destroyed my engine!

Luckily everything seemed to be very very recent and still ok. So I trimmed the hose back and re-installed the barb fitting. I reattached it to the oil filter remote mount and filled the engine with oil. When I started her up she purred like a kitten. I re-checked for leaks...All good. What a blessing! I drove home very thankful that problem didn't go un-noticed too long

If you have 'Push-Loc' hoses you may want to double check the fitting points!

Finally, a Jeebus Creebus story with a happy ending! I thought they only existed in legend....