GREAT!! From the symptoms it had to be a boost leak past the MAF. I'm just happy you have enough fuel to run 9.5:1 A/f all of the way through

Back together again with the upper intake resealed and poly mounts installed front and rear on the motor. Also have a new reverse light switch installed and the upper intercooler piping re-routed to keep it in one piece.

I can't say that I like the extra vibration heard at low RPM's with the Poly mounts in, but it could be worse and the benefits are there.

I toyed with boost levels and fuel supply via MAFT on and off all day. So far up to about 27psi and still not too lean with the wideband reading a max of 11.6-11.8 in forth in the cooler weather tonight. I'm also feeling it start to pull timing as the knock did climb to 22 counts in forth, but this is on some lower grade 92 with 10% ethynol. 3rd felt great all the way through. I feel she could use some more fine tuning. For now I'm pretty happy with the performance with the previous bugs worked out.

Got a good 2nd gear bark going into second in the middle of the day... That was pretty sweet.

I windo-welded my mount and it shakes the steering wheel pretty good at idle too. Kind of annoying, but I've learned to live with it.

Glad to hear it's running good.

So the MAFT is your only tuning aid? Just wondering, because if it's good enough to tune your setup, it'll more than enough to tune mine.

I'm always up for a fun run

But here's my back pocket excuse... It's always a work in progress.
3rd = frieght train
4th = a slowing frieght train

We will be adding some BP 93 octane today and cross my fingers that everything else holds together for a while.

MAFT + EPROM set for 1000cc injectors

That remains to be seen, but it couldn't hurt.

YEAH! I think I found my nitch! From now on I only go from 30MPH to 45MPH in fifth. Except for V8 domestics...

Hahaha DSM's are so predictable!

Emotional equalibrium...
The high of performance
The low of breakage
The mustering of perservierance
The feeling of accomplishment
The high of performance... Etc.

After some fun last weekend I decided I needed to take care of an oil leak that had been smoking off of the exhaust. I found the typical DSM oil pan leak. So Wednesday night I had the oil pan off and resealing it with a high quality GM sealant.

Thursday I made a couple of quick fun runs with friends. Everything seemed to stay dry of oil, but I lost a cylinder after coming back to idle on the last 2-3-4th gear blast. So Thursday night I ended up pulling the cylinder head with Spy's help (Thanks!). This is because I found that one (yes only one) of the exaust valves on cylinde number three hung open and kissed the piston. Every other vlave looks good and the other three cylinders have good compression. The piston was hit but looks really good considering. I've talked to Rob about his fresh stock cylinder head and I've got a cheapo Felpro head gasket coming in for a Saturday morning thrash session to get this thing to Slo Pny Drag Day.

Was it because one of the old lifters siezed up, because the valve got hung up in the guide, or because the old rocker got bound up? I don't know yet, but she's been running way too good not to try to make it to the Drag Day!

Haha No reason to mince words... I'll lay down everything she's got on sunday! Drag or be dragged.

You're puttin a felpro in that O-ringed head of yours? Is that a little risky considering that beast blew apart a cometic?

Since its oringed it may last forever. How high are you going to torque it?

Yes, considering the broken cylinder head had the O-rings and the stocker wont i'd say it's chancy. Keep in mind the deck surface of the cylinder head was imperfect when I blew out the Cometic. Plus it's been documented that many have had problems sealing up their Cometics due to surfaces that are not smooth enough.

So there is a slim chance this thing may work for a few runs, maybe all day, and on the outside a couple weeks. Either way it will be there and once I get the race head fixed I will switch them back.

Torque = 120ft/lbs

Oh yeah thats right. The temp head it not o-ringed

Marcus- Call me when you know what time you are going to do the work. I somehow lost your #, if you can believe that. I'll gladly come out and help the process. (or just watch and drool.)

Update time...

Ok I got the cylinder head back from Kalina with three new Farrerea Stainless valves and one new guide. They also touched up the seats in a quick and affordable fashion.

I came to the conclusion (educated guess) that the problem occurred by one of the original lifters collapsing in the head under high stress allowing the rocker arm to dislodge and get caught up side ways between the cam and the valve at the wrong time.

So to help protect my investment I ordered all new 3G lifters from JNZ to replace the original 1G's along with a new stock head gasket (I love the O-ringed head). I couldn't bring myself to purchase all new rockers, but Rob set me up with a decent used set that I was able to replace the damaged rocker with.

As usual I couldn't leave well enough alone and sent more of my hard-earned cash to Forced Performance for the FP3 cams. To get them dialed in correctly I purchased the cheapest adjustable cam gears I could find from our friendly AMS people (Fidanzas ).

Everything went together nicely and it was running by Saturday afternoon. I managed to get out and about that night to test out the new (untuned set-up). The exhaust note is a bit louder and 'Brappy' if there is such a thing. These cams are made for mid range power and it shows even in the untuned stage. Low-end power to mid comes on with the most minute accelerator input. And when the engine is rev-matched properly on take-off it has all the intentions of a beast. Very satisfying in that respect.

I still need a new oxygen sensor VERY badly as any cruising speed below 3000 RPM initiates a lot of knock with any load presented that is not corrected with the accelerator and higher RPM's. This problem also leads to VERY long lag when the throttle is engaged while in the knock and little to no timing.

I hope to get a new chip burned from NCgalant soon and I need to get the cams dialed in. Even though they felt very good, there is a noticeable hint of the engine having to work against itself to rev up. This and the knock have not helped issues.

All that being said I did find a newer EVO bottom feeding on a beat-up 80's Camaro that wasn't worth his time. After witnessing his actions and intent, I eased up beside him and allowed him to stretch his legs on something more worthy of his time. Even though I remained in forth gear his initial 2 ft lead was immediately erased as I let the turbo wind up and made him chase me through a bit of fifth. I wasn't pulling bus lengths on him like I would have liked to, but he was falling back by car lengths at a rapid rate. After slowing down and finding another clear spot we again went from the high gear role. He had his share of the stretch, obviously out of breath and it was over. On the slow down he pulled up beside with the usual comment... Yeah 'I'm just stock' he said. He was a good guy and obviously excited as he stated that the Talon is fast, but I made sure he knew I didn't want any part of him in the game of turning corners. We parted ways and I went home.

More to come...

A new Denso Oxygen sensor has been ordered from MachV that will also handle leaded fuel better.

Are you about ready for some tuning time NCGalant?

I give you 3 days til it's broke again.... just kidding ODT! Glad to hear it's back on the road.

What makes you so optomistic about this time?

Hmmm... You were more right than you may have know Rob.

The good news is I got my aftermarket oil cooler installed. All I can say is, what a fit! It looks great, all the lines are tight and dry, and the cooler is mounted securely. Alls that was required for a good fit and finish was a little tweaking an triming on the driver side splash guards.

In the process I found that my T-belt seemed a little on the loose side so I pulled it all apart and sugged everything up. That's all good now too.

Still planning on getting the new O2 sensor in Monday.

However I run into another MAJOR hurdle to try and overcome before SCDC. I need to make some calls Monday to see if anything can be done, but right now it just looks like I'm throwing good money after bad into some sort of curse. We will see.

keep at it buddy and don't loose heart. if I can help with parts or whatever just let me know.

...short update.

Long story short. Turbo is back in the car now. Forced Performance covered it under warranty. They ROCK!

I have installed a new O2 sensor good for leaded fuel, a new 180 Thermostat, and a Fluidine aluminum radiator from Road Race.

Things are back on track now for the time being and running cool the whole time. Time to get one more tune on the EPROM before I take it to the dyno to dial in the cam gears. Where are ya NCGalant?

I'll give you a call after church. Maybe we can get together tonight

If your going to be in the area sometime, let me know, I could use a quick re-check of my tune now that my boost leaks are plugged.

Between NC & I brainstorming along with his MAD hacking skills and chip burning hardware we have been able to make the Talon pull like a CRAZY TRAIN. 17 degrees of timing churning 25-26PSI through 2.5 liters of Mad Mitsubishi resulting in a 11.8-12.5 AFR and wicked pull.

As usual, tuning for daily driving is much more difficult and time consuming than WOT tuning. We are still fighting full knock at the drop of a hat ANY and EVERY time the throttle is between 20-30% and the RPM's are at 3400RPM or less. Sometimes it is not as persistent down hills, but any uphill load with no addition of throttle results in this rediculous behavior. We've pulled timing, Added fuel to the tune of 10.8:1 with no results. Then went the other way since this lack of timing is dumping all kinds of heat into the Turbine housing. With more timing there is still full knock, but now the car soesn't fall totally on it's face. I have a hard time believing that there should be any knock below 3400RPM, with no boost, cruising at 20-30% throttle. It's rediculous.

Does anyone have any ideas or have you heard of this? This knock goes away as soon as I dip into throttle and boost. There is vertually no knock at WOT. I also don't believe it's resonance since it is often initiated by load like a VERY slight incline on a highway you are trying to drive 55-60MPH on.

She is running though. Freeway and WOT are awesome.

UPDATE: I'm getting a new chip from NC tonight that I will try that may curb the problem. Even if it does the origin is still present. Let me know what you think.

You could be dealing with a sort of electrical "resonance", though. When those conditions exist, the signal voltages in several places could cause some sort of induction into the knock sensor circuit. Wild idea, but I'm stupid, so that's all I got.

I had the exact same problem, I just set my ECU up to ignore knock when its not seeing any boost and turn down the cruise timing a degree or two. I assume that's what NC is doing.

Yeah Wort, He is thinking along the same lines. He is basicly makeing the retard map the same as the Timing map so there is no retard when it is in that range.

That is possible IronGoat, though I wouldn't know how to go about tracking it down and curring it. At the same time, I would be happy if it were just a 'Phantom' situation caused by electrical interferance or resonance.

Such a nuissance can be remedied in a couple of ways, but electrical shielding would probably be the best idea in this case. I have a bunch of leftover shielding, so let me know if you want to explore this avenue. And perhaps even MY avenue...

Thanks Goat. I may take you up on that as soon as I get some of these other issues ironed out. That may get your blood pumping to finish breathing life into your monster.

Hey kicks, give me a call and let me know how that chip worked out for you.

There may be more life in that monster than anyone knows....

Planning on loading the Talon up on R&T's dyno Saturday morning around 9:30am.

My primary goal will be to find the best cam gear timing for spool and midrange for WOT runs. So it will be a tedious dyno sesion and may not net very impressive numbers.

Right now I will be happy if it breaks 400 ponies at the wheels with the plans I have in mind for tomorrow. She could barely pull away from Spy's 300 the other night so I don't expect too much.

That said anyone is more than welcome to join. I hope to only be on the dyno for a couple of hours. I'm going to pull the T-case tonight so I don't have to waste time with it tomorrow.

Holy Sheep Ship!

Burning rubber through four gears at will is crazy!
The T-case and drive shaft are out. We are ready for the dyno tomorrow.

If your going to be there for a couple of hours, maybe I run by with my son. I need to put some miles (and tuning) on the new Supra SMIC setup anyway.

OK I am not to smart on this dyno thing. If you take out the drive shaft and transfer case that leaves you with fwd. So if you say pull 500 fwhp is that the same as awdhp? Or does it loose hp adding the other two wheels?

If I can keep the front tiresfrom spinning this will show a slightly higher HP than if I were on an AWD dyno since I wont have alot of the AWD's parasitic loss. For a base line and tuning purposes it will be fine. I will simply be comparing my baseline with improvements that I make on the same dyno.

You've got a Viscous Coupling eliminator in though right? Without the VCE it'll smoke your stocker.

Yup... without the VCE I would have to use an AWD Dyno.

We found the best cam configuration for the Talon today that produced the least amount of knock and the most HP/torque. Our first pull with the cams straight up netted 427HP & 437ft/lbs of torque. By the time we were done we got the HP up to 452 and the Torque number matched it. Considering I've been designing it for 500 WHP and I was not looking for peak HP today I am very happy with the numbers! BTW - That calculates out to approximately 520 crank HP.

Good and bad...I'm not exactly sure where my boost was at. My gage read between 20 and 23psi through various pulls. I want to maximize boost on pump gas and I'm going to need better boost control and a gage to pin that down.

I have been running Shell 93 octane for the past couple weeks which I have been slapped around for. With more boost, better 93 octane and maybe the use of water injection 500whp should be do-able.

The car sounded good man! Looks like you tweaked the HP after I left, 450 lb of torque is insane from a 4 cylinder. I can't wait to see it run down the track.

What's wrong with Shell 93?? What's a better brand to run?

nate got on my for running shell 93 as well

nice numbers

I've been running shell as well.... please fill us in!!!

Oh, and good numbers Marcus.... Maybe I should swap the 318 our for a 4g63....

Yes I'm looking forward to the 1/4 mile runs as well. In bench racing mode that HP & Torque should put 11.3 to 11.5's in reach.

As far as the fuel both Rob of R&T's and NCGalant are in love with BP's gas. I don't know if they have tested all the fuels in the area, but both have had bad experiences with Shell's best grade. Low HP numbers on the dyno compared to BP and alot higher knock with Shell than BP. I don't know, it may be the detergents that Shell has causing the problems because I've always heard they were of good quality.

So regardless I will go out of my way to put BP in next time because I am fighting the low RPM knock still.

I've had the best results with BP and Mobil gas as well.

As far as keeping the engine clean on a daily driver I would say that shell 93(V-Power) is the best available, but as you said for high performance engines they use alot of detergents that probably aren't good for the cause.

Shell 93 uses 5 times the minimum detergents that the government requires which is 3 times any other major brand currently uses. I have seen the independent study results and seen an engine dismantled after running Shell 93 and 2 other major brands (Amaco and Sunoco) that prove it.

I used to manage a Freedom station that sold Shell fuel and had to go take an all day class when the V-power was introduced to the U.S.

Awesome numbers! I'm glad she's staying together and performing so well for you. I want a ride!!

Great that you were able to free up so much hp tuning in those cams.

I got a ride last night.... 3rd gear, 80mph, FWD mode....

two wheels are definately not enough to keep this rocket on the ground.....

453HP & 457ft./lb revised numbers after reviewing the graph.

Here is a graph of the best run (in blue). I have also overlaid a very similar run to help fill in the gaps (in red). It looks like the Torque peaks out at around 4900RPM and the HP maxes out between 6000 and 6500RPM. Plus you can see the HP stays above 400HP from around 4750 to nearly 7500RPM. The torque peaks early and falls, but didn't go below 300ft./lb's until after 7K RPM. Air fuel leaned out a bit up top, but still safe.

All Dyno runs were started at or above 3500RPM to get away from my low RPM knock and shut off by 7500RPM. By the graphs it looks obvious that I don't need to stay in any particular gear after 6500 or 7000RPM. Shifting there will still keep me above 5000RPM and in the meat of the power.

I'm pleased with this base. Thanks for the kind words.